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This will make you smile - great players, a new generation.
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04-18-2020 03:39 AM
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This is something that I first became aware of thanks to Mr MacKillop's postings of classical pieces played on archtop with plectrum!
Originally Posted by christianm77
I agree that Antoine also plays real music. I've had my ear on both for a few years now. There's something to be learned here, even if you don't have that kind of firepower.
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Yeah, I'm not worthy to hold his guitar case, but I recognise what Christian refers to. Although I've had one or two good moments, I doff my chapeau to this young lion. He is awe inspiring in his freedom.
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What I really appreciate about him is that he doesn't let his very prodigious chops get in the way of the music. Julian Lage also comes to mind in this regard, but he's like... 33 or something now :)
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Yeah Julian who?
Squirrel!
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Just a light hearted joke about youthful virtuosity, Rob (pretty soon people will be raving about players who haven't even been born yet!). I've been checking Boyer out for some time and he's an excellent, creative musician who definitely has a unique voice. For me, his jazz playing is a little reminiscent of Reinier Baas but maybe that's the result of growing up in a post-Julian Lage world. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Pfff. Dude can't even play the right notes in the head. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Go on post it on the video - Originally Posted by Jehu
‘pro tip if you are going to learn Donna Lee best to make sure you know it first.’
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I saw him quite long ago... I think there was even some thread about him on the forum.
He is exceptional of course but virtuosos scare me.
I like his 'gypsified' perfomance - that flavour of mix of jazz/cabaret/manouche etc. European style...
But I do not like his classical performances, the control and technique are estonishing though.
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What a wonderful musician. Flawless technique which serves the music 100%.
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Strange really, as if he struggles to come through it on spot. I am sure with his skills and abilities it should not be a problem to learn it, usually these kids have exceptional musical memory.. Originally Posted by Jehu
I also thought... he is quite heavy and straight forward (square) in general, the phrasing and all.
Everybody says how musical he is... maybe I have different understanding of what music is?
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Listen to his arrangement of Sound of Silence. How he gets those contrapunctal lines going is sublime. Really gets going at around 1:20. Originally Posted by Jonah
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Just watched that Scarlatti Sonata again and as I can't help feeling each note played by another guitarist rather intensely in my own fingers, I ended up both entranced and exhausted.
Don't wish to offend but it's possible that some levels of musicianship go over some heads. If you find fault with any aspects of Antoine's playing, please post a vid (not necessarily your own) illustrating how "it should be done"
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Oops! I forgot to add a smiley or wink or goat or eggplant or whatever. Originally Posted by Jehu
Obviously a phenomenal player who can play Donna Lee however he likes. Carry on...
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I occasionally came across this record... Micheli is one of the few modern classical guiatrists that I like -- though I knew him first from participation in lute projext Lonard- Mela - Micheli... Originally Posted by Peter C
Just watched that Scarlatti Sonata again and as I can't help feeling each note played by another guitarist rather intensely in my own fingers, I ended up both entranced and exhausted.
Don't wish to offend but it's possible that some levels of musicianship go over some heads. If you find fault with any aspects of Antoine's playing, please post a vid (not necessarily your own) illustrating how "it should be done"
It does not matter that they play duo an dit must be easier to execute...
The tempo is not an issue for me - one can play faster or slower... it is not a problem usually if inner things in musi work.
But even the phrasing in the first opening motive... the kind plays it just straight evenly as the measure goes ... and the quavers sound a bit heavy (when I rewatch I noticed how he waves his head in this opening line - this corresponds his phrasiing: ta Ta da da ta Ta da da ta Ta da da...)
then the sequences follow -- he playes then just as if he shifts it mechanically -- as if nothing is going on except transposing a sequence...
(syncopated figure sounds very heavy - it should be shown - but it is very light as part of the texture - it is ambivalent)
He changes dynamics only once in section (if I remember correctly now) and it is very noticeable... it is an effect (I do nto know what for actually --)
Micheli plays a longer and more sophisticated line.. his breath is more spacisous..
you can hear further on and see there are much more nuances, much more breath (rather than meter) in the performance... they outline the form.
The sequences have their shape and realtions - and they are not that mathematially symmetrical as it may seem from written notation
Their dynamics changes are less noticeable but much more delicate and related to what is going on in the music at the moment...
Piansits play it at crazy tempos, I am not a fan of this performance but it is very well elaborated in concern of what is going on inside music -- it shows it very clearly - all the motives, ambivalen rythmic and motivic figuer etc (this is particular feature of many Pletnev's records to me - I see the work behind it too well))
there are two harpsichord records I found...
this one I like more.. I think it is very subtle.. he keeps the pace and breath but at the same time he sounds like he slows down and speeds up where it is necessarily.
It is also interesting to compare as the harpsichord has no dynamics but nevertheless he manages to show everything with the other means
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I usually learn something from Jonah's very well thought out reasons for disliking things.
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No understood what you meant. I do, unlike Jonah, feel he can probably play the conventional notes of Donna Lee should he choose to. Originally Posted by Jehu
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Yes Jonah, that duo rendition is a very different proposition by nature. It breathed very nicely, and was thoroughly enjoyable.
Antoine's interpretation, rather than mechanical in any way, has a more Bach-like constant metre. I have no idea whether Scarlatti would have approved as I am not a student of the Baroque, but I do know what I like It's a remarkable achievement to play it so convincingly as a solo piece.
Loved the harpsichord performance. Not much breathing going on there, though!
By the way, the Donna Lee comments are a joke, right?
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I thought he deliberately tried to "play around" the head but to me it sounded as if it did not always work... here I could be wrong... Originally Posted by christianm77
Maybe it was a sort of Picasso-tecnique (when you distort or diconstruct a familiar object but still keep it recognizable)
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I'm not crazy about the Donna Lee clip. Sounded a bit contrived to me. I really like how he used the head as the jumping off point for his solo, though. Originally Posted by Jonah
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That's the reason I write negative comments... those who praise rarely say anything beyond 'this is so musical'. Originally Posted by christianm77
Scarlatti is easy to show it because there are such obvious things ... it is like ABC... it is basic, one does not need to be an expert in baroque to hear it...
I will be happy if someone would convince me I am wrong pointing out to particular elements in the piece ... but nobody seems to care to go further than loud-quite, sensitive emotional, clean technique, and impessive effect of basic phrasing strongly articulated ..
That kid is promising.... he needs someone to guide like Enescu did to Menuhin during the mentorship
period...Last edited by Jonah; 04-21-2020 at 02:28 AM.
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Having listened to his latest solo album, I have a feeling that he tries too many different things for his own good. The record is, on the whole, a mixed bag, and normally that doesn't make for good records. His classical pieces always sound a bit like a fingerstyle player doing classical pieces, if you get my drift... I'm myself guilty of the same thing, as someone pointed out to me not long ago. Maybe that's why it struck me. Maybe it's just the reverb.
I have to say that I liked the electric guitar solos best. (I've already quoted Sound of Silence above.) Seems like that's where he's coming from. The duets with Samuelito are great, too, because both work in their native idiom.
BTW Jonah - Antoine does indeed have quite a lot of dynamics in his interpretation, but you're right that he doesn't make the piece breathe in a way that any of your interpretations do.
My feeling that at this point, Antoine has far transcended the Gipsy thing he apparently started with, but has not yet arrived at a convincing synthesis of all the things he undoubtedly can do. I'm still under the impression of the recent Julian Lage masterclass, I guess - Julian is the first to point out his shortcomings, but he makes a valid musical statement every time.
Anyway, we're bickering on a very high level here, aren't we.
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Ha.. I just saw that Julian's vid too...
Julian was at the beginning different.. I remember when he was younger and I liked his playing but dit was not yet clear what will come out from that curiousity and virtuousity)))
there are some similarities - they both are very instrumental players.. even now when Julian is much more mature I can hear that likes instrumental solutions with maybe risky and unexpected result... I like it but deep in my heart I still feel it like a continuation of that youth curiousity he had back in the days... that's not bad but sometimes it can overshadow music as statement with conception or instrument as statement which can be interesting too
But there is difference... I think it is a bit more than just msuicality... Julian by spirit has some kind of earlier humanity... yes I namenly call it 'humanity' - the sense of what is human (human feeling, thought, speed, speach etc.) -- I think that during last 2500 years it was changing but was more or less in one line fundamentally... but after WWII approx. it was already gone. (though many peopele still worked and lived in it)... and what we witness today is some kiend of different humanity...
It is interesting that spped of playing has nothing to with that - most and foremost I think it is the sense of time
In music sense of time express through all the parameters - and I feel like Julian has the same feel of time like Django or Schnabel or Wes or Joe Pass or Guld or Furtwangler had..
But Antoine's is something different -
The beauty of Antoine's experession and phrasing (even in manouche) is sort of mechanic to me.. not becasue he is robotic.. (I have no intention to insult him) but because this aesthetics is built around some other priciples that I do not feel realted to... and if he played totally new music (Xenkis for example) I would be more comfortable with it.. but he takes old patterns and idioms but sounds like all is unrelated to me...
It makes it all unbearably corny and fake to me..
In classical music it is especially clear because it .. it is just clear. this music is too clear.. you do not need to inven interepretation you need to know and understand it... then it will work even if imperfect
Julian always was different in that sense -
As for dynamics I like when players in jazz (or around) use them at all... byt the way Julian does and in a very subtle way.
I am not sure why but jazz guitarists (even best ones) often ignore it as a nuance... maybe it is connected with amplification which is a kind of compression and dynamics goes on the background, they use other tools (like organ or harpsichord players).
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