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Here's something I don't see much written about in these parts, which periods do you prefer from your fave artists, and more interestingly, why?
I'll start with a few musings of my own:
Bird - the whole package.
Trane - Definitely mid 50's till around '62 - when he still had a foot in the Hard Bop camp.
Jackie McLean - Early 60's Blue Note- searching for ways to expand his approach without ditching his hard earned style.
Sonny Rollins - Utouchable b/n '55 and '60. Can't really listen to anything after that, sorry...
Dexter Gordon- Early 60's Blue Note years. The tunes, the recording, the sound!...
Miles - '54 to '69. Still coming around to the '70's era, but it just doesn't, to quote the man himself, "go into my body..."
Art Blakey, '57 to '63, with many exceptions before and after...
Pat Martino- Basically El Hombre. His playing was perfect back then.
Benson- I mainly listen to live recordings and have no preference for any era.
Wes - All of it.
Scofield - 90's
I'll leave it at that for now, and yes, I see a pattern too
What can I say, I'm a Hard Bop nut.
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10-31-2018 10:58 AM
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Jim Hall's playing was always wonderful in my opinion, but he got into some deep waters in the 90's...played "free" better than just about any guitarist I ever heard. That stuff is really special to me.
Speaking of great playing later in life, Jimmy Raney's albums on Steeplechase and Criss-Cross are some of the best jazz guitar playing (and tone) you'll ever hear.
On the non-guitar front, Tom Harrell's string of albums in the last 10 years or so (starting with "Light On" or so) are incredibly strong.
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Freddie Hubbard: first string of blue note albums is incredible. I also love the "early" CTI records, so 60-65 and then 71-73.
Tom Harrell: I feel his playing in the Phil Woods quintet is maybe his technical peak (84-89), but his creativity and the context he surrounds himself in has only grown over time and I love all his stuff.
For Trane, I'm kind of the opposite as the OP: 60-'67 is my favorite period, including the mind melting Olatunji Concert.
Jazz Messengers: '61-64, the Hubbard years, basically. "Free For All" and "3 Blind Mice" are favorites.
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Tal Farlow- In the 50s he just kept getting better and better till he reached a level of jazz artistry that has yet to be surpassed, IMHO.
Then I went to see him with Jim Hall at the 1974 Newport Jazz festival in NY, and I couldn't believe it was the same Tal. After that, he did some great chord work, but apparently the effects of alcohol and his long break, messed up the coordination between his left and right hand after the 50s.
Jim Hall- Loved everything up to his stuff in the 90s, where he seemed to try to appeal to a younger audience.
Trane- Even McCoy couldn't get with the stuff he did in the last few years of his life. I preferred his earlier stuff.
Jimmy Raney- Loved all of it except when they started having him record with players( Kirk Lightsey?) that had nothing to do with his jazz conception.
Oscar Peterson- Liked his stuff up to the later stuff when he stopped swinging, and just played the virtuoso for virtuosity's sake.
Freddie Hubbard- Loved his stuff up to his lip problems
Phil Woods- Just sounded like another Bird-clone until his breakthrough in 1957.
Phineas Newborn- Loved everything up till his scary breakdown towards the end.
Wes- Every note he played
Frank Strozier- Liked it all, then he quit.
Lee Konitz- loved the stuff up to the 60s- then he went kerflooey
Bud Powell- only liked his early, clear-headed stuff. When the cop pounded his head in, a great artist was destroyed.
Gil Evans- Loved his stuff till he just let everyone blow.
George Russell- Loved his early stuff until lost it on his Lydian Chromatic concept
Jimmy Giuffre- Loved his stuff till paul Bley joined his group
Bill evans- It's all good.
Cannonball Adderly- Loved it all till he went all Kumbaya
Other than a few exceptions, there seems to be a pattern here... Remember, this is all highly subjective, so there's no right or wrong.
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Cannonball, in several ways, I always thought to be the very best altoist of all time when he was playing the shit outta the blues, tunes with changes or even a mean Bossa, but all before he went all "Soul Jazz" and all else. Once again, mid 50's to very early 60's.
Originally Posted by sgcim
In fact, it's obvious that so many of the all time greats dropped their bundle by the early if not mid 60's. The reasons why are complex and fascinating, an amalgam of so many things piling up into one big car crash, culture shifts, drugs, fashion, labels going off Jazz, (whilst Jazz was just going off ) politics getting weird, and ahem, The Beatles!
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Yeah, very well put. Someone like Miles tried to resist the fusion thing at first, but Columbia was going to drop him if he didn't conform and start hitting the baby boomer market. He hated Hendrix, when his wife made him Originally Posted by princeplanet
Cannonball, in several ways, I always thought to be the very best altoist of all time when he was playing the shit outta the blues, tunes with changes or even a mean Bossa, but all before he went all "Soul Jazz" and all else. Once again, mid 50's to very early 60's.
In fact, it's obvious that so many of the all time greats dropped their bundle by the early if not mid 60's. The reasons why are complex and fascinating, an amalgam of so many things piling up into one big car crash, culture shifts, drugs, fashion, labels going off Jazz, (whilst Jazz was just going off ) politics getting weird, and ahem, The Beatles! ....
see him, and walked out on him. Same thing with Sly and all that crap, but Columbia told him, "Listen, you're contract is NOT going to be renewed unless you get on the rock bandwagon, and start selling records to these hippies. Probably the same thing with Cannonball. Who knows what happened with Trane. One sax player I know claims he was doing LSD everyday for a year towards the end of his life.
With Miles' fusion records, Teo Macero was editing things for Miles every night, after the sessions, so Teo would use stuff from sessions Miles did that were recorded years before or after the tune that was being recorded, sometimes with a completely different band!
MacLaughlin didn't get paid for some sessions that he had played on two years ago, on a record that was just released yesterday!
Miles didn't give a schlitz, as long as he was making a lot of money, selling records and playing rock concerts and festivals, so he didn't even listen to Teo Macero's edits.
Anyway, people will just keep saying Miles was a genius, cause he never repeated himself, so anything he played was proof of that...
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I thought about this for a bit and I'm not sure I ever thought of my favorite players work in terms of eras before.
Miles lifetime work is an interesting topic. He was most revere what came out of his horn and his ability to spot talent. Stan Getz was also often not a nice person, hence that famous Zoot Sims quip "Stan is a nice bunch of guys" yet he made sounds on the horn that melted hearts worldwide. Wes was a wonderful, warm person and that quality, plus immense musicality just dripped out of his amplifier but does that matter to the listener? Guess that's a whole 'nother question. So, back on topic ......
Miles - I respect what he achieved but not really a fan of that harmon mute right on the mic sound - in any of this eras. I'm much more partial to the Clifford Brown-type trumpet tone (another supposedly sweetheart of a guy).
Wes - everything he ever played and unlike most, I really dig his pop recordings.
Getz - late 50s through the Bossa era. Didn't care for his later, more muscular-sounding tone. His sound and ideas on Getz/Gelberto are a desert island LP for me.
Jim Hall - in the period where he made records with Paul Desmond, for me, he's untouchable. I intellectually appreciate everything he recorded but the Desmond period gets me emotionally.
George Shearing - I loved his solo piano playing. His Latin-period was cool at first but then got to be a brand and became less so.
Bill Evans - my favorite playing of his was his the trio with Eddie Gomez and Philly Joe Jones. Philly Jo brought something out in Evans that was special and kind of more dynamic and aggressive while still retaining the impressionistic quality. Check out the record "California Here I Come."
Joao Gilberto - his early Brazilian records through the 60s. Brilliant and unique. He invented an entire guitar style.
Coltrane - most of his work doesn't interest me mostly for his tone and for what I perceive as the lack of storytelling in a lot of his solos. Giant steps is unavoidable as a tower achievement and his huge influence is undeniable. Yet, he's not someone I seek out to listen to.
Art Tatum - he was always best as a soloist. With the exception of maybe Buddy DeFranco, other musicians just got in his way.
Django - I prefer his last two years on electric guitar. I love the slightly distorted tone and the bebop influence on his already timeless playing and there was an added poignant quality, with less glib technique-for-technique's-sake, after the war. Also dig his solo recordings.
Anita O'day - mid - late 50's.
Tal - agree that he was at his best in the 50s. His later records are okay but feel kind of "meh" when compared to his 50s brilliance. I never heard alcohol abuse mentioned in regard to Tal before, just his strong desire to get out of the music business rat race.Last edited by AndyV; 11-06-2018 at 07:15 AM.
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Jim Hall- there is little of his playing that I don't like, except for the last few records of his life. I don't quite get those for some reason, but so what? He was still pushing forward right until the end of his life, we should all be so lucky! He Da Man.
Johnny Smith- love the Roost small group sessions and solo record. The last few studio albums with more modern pop tunes grab me less, the material didn't seem to give him as much to work with, but even on those there are nuggets of gold. Mosaic box set is stellar.
Ed Bickert- love every note. He is Da Other Man. Deserves a Mosaic box set, too.
Peter Bernstein- I don't get the "Monk" stuff (but that's not Pete- I don't get the Monk stuff, if I am honest, when it's played by Monk either). But what a player, what a tone, and what control over his music.
Pat Metheny- love the earlier PMG stuff, it goes off the rails for me after "Offramp." Really dislike a lot of the later PMG stuff. But then I love his duo/trio stuff throughout his career and side trips like the album with Joshua Redman. Also one of the most articulate interviewees in jazz.
Pat Martino- early (El Hombre) and later stuff I love, not so taken with middle period and early comeback stuff. Although for a psychologist like me his neurological story is one of the most fascinating things ever.
Allan Holdsworth- generally speechless when I listen. Astonishing music positioned smack dab between anything that might have been a successful marketing niche. The recent box set of all his studio albums is desert island stuff.
Joe Pass- everything. The most complete jazz guitarist. Burning bop to tender ballads, sometimes in the same song. But around 1992, facing mortality, he elevated his playing into the sublime.
Bob Weir, Jerry Garcia & Phil Lesh- love it all. The brilliant shows, the abysmal shows, the in-between shows. But especially 71-73, 76-77: the "jazzy Dead" periods into the Terrapin-Shakedown days. Less the last 5 years before Jerry's death. The vibe changed. But Dead & Company is blowing righteously and who knew that John Mayer could actually play guitar? Summanagun!
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I've always thought the same thing. All the acoustic early stuff is wonderful, of course, but it's just too, well, "Gypsy" sounding for my tastes. I couldn't listen to Gypsy Jazz every day, but Django's boppish electric years I find to be as listenable as Charlie Christian or Wes. And probably even more exciting than either... Originally Posted by AndyV
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Johnny Smith & Barney Kessell, picked up on them in the 60s!! Burrell a little later, and then Wes.
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Wow, where did you get all of that on Miles? That contradicts everything Ive read him saying, he loved Hendrix, Sly and all that new music, he saw it as natural progression of Black culture, and totally embraced it on his own will! Originally Posted by sgcim
What, you're saying he wanted to continue to make the same outdated standard jazz of the 50s forever and only gave in to the record labels pressure to make something new? Maybe I misunderstood your post...it really cant be it, smh.
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I got it from a biography of Miles. I wouldn't call the group with Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter 'outdated jazz of the 50s', but you seem to think that anything that doesn't have a twangy, distorted guitar, out dated 50s jazz, so maybe you think it was. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I said that when he first heard Hendrix, he walked out on Hendrix' concert. That was his initial reaction.
He changed his mind later. Whether that was because Columbia threatened to terminate his contract, or he saw it as a 'natural progression of black music', is a moot point.
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Agree with the late 50s, especially the west coast "cool" period, and continuing up to 1967 with the "Sweet Rain" album, IMO the greatest jazz album ever. Originally Posted by AndyV
Bill Evans: Definitely late 50s to mid 60s. I liked the Scott LaFaro/early Eddie Gomez years.
Seems when jazz musicians stopped wearing suits and ties, things went to s**t.
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Well it's not exactly a moot point, if i follow you correct you're suggesting that Miles career took a 'wrong' turn after the 2nd quintet, that his choices were not really his. Like all the guitarists he choosed ro work with... McLaughlin, Robben Ford, Mike Stern, Sco, one might argue they have a LOT to do with Hendrix style... So Miles was sitting there thinking 'I wish i could hire hmm, Kenny Burrel, or Tal Farlow, but those mofos producers wont let me, so I have to put up with this distorted guitar garbage' lol! Ok then... Originally Posted by sgcim
Fair enough you can hear my prefernces, and i can only suggest yours(never have heard your playing or knowing who you are, wihch is fine), but I will never believe that about Miles. If there was one guy in jazz who didnt follow anyone orders, it was him.
My preferences are actually Miles bands with Mike Stern and Sco. I think it was his best years.
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Haha- You know it's so interesting how when I was a teenager I thought the old Jazz cats in their suit and ties from the 50's looked so square, and that the long hairs were the new cool and that there could be no looking back. But, of course, some of us do look back and now see that those same 50's pics of Miles, Trane, Mingus, Dolphy, McLean, Dexter, Grant Green etc actually represent the very definition of cool Originally Posted by Uncle Vinnie
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Brother, I couldn't have said it better. Had those very thoughts back then as well. Originally Posted by princeplanet
Haha- You know it's so interesting how when I was a teenager I thought the old Jazz cats in their suit and ties from the 50's looked so square, and that the long hairs were the new cool and that there could be no looking back. But, of course, some of us do look back and now see that those same 50's pics of Miles, Trane, Mingus, Dolphy, McLean, Dexter, Grant Green etc actually represent the very definition of cool ...
I always thought that if I ever went full time musician, I'd definitely do my best to bring back the dark suit/white shirt/skinny black tie ensemble. As Tevye said, "It's tradition!"
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People probably thought we looked like undertakers in our black suits, ties, and sometimes sunglasses, but we wanted to look like the old jazz cats. Originally Posted by princeplanet
Haha- You know it's so interesting how when I was a teenager I thought the old Jazz cats in their suit and ties from the 50's looked so square, and that the long hairs were the new cool and that there could be no looking back. But, of course, some of us do look back and now see that those same 50's pics of Miles, Trane, Mingus, Dolphy, McLean, Dexter, Grant Green etc actually represent the very definition of cool ...
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