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As great as his records on Concord were, the trio with Clarke and Thompson was probably on the same level as the Bill Evans trio with LaFaro and Motian. Does anyone have any definitive info on what gauge strings he used?
Lorne Lofsky claims .012s
His guitar tech claimed .010s
Reg Schwaeger said he used mixed sets.
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05-14-2018 03:46 PM
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I was always partial to this one where Don Thompson played piano instead of bass:
Don Thompson (2) - Dance To The Lady - New and Used Vinyl, CD and Cassette | Reverb LP
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I've got that one, too. It's okay, but the trio with Thompson on bass features more of his great chord work.
Originally Posted by AndyV
I think the duo with the great Bill Mays on piano was the best piano/guitar duo, period.
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‘At the Garden Party’ is nice, mostly a duo with Don Thompson so you get a lot of tasty chord work from Ed.
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love ed's style of playing...i'm a sap for beautiful melodic movements
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They also made another recording together as a duo as a promo for a concert they were doing. They just played perfectly together- no clashes, beautiful solos- high art IMHO. Originally Posted by pkirk
I saw Bill Mays in Penn. at the Phil Woods Memorial concert; he played his ass off!
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Yeah, i was also wondering for quite some time... but since we both wouldn't sound like him, even with HIS strings and HIS guitar, we could just stop asking us that question. Originally Posted by sgcim
For my part, I've pretty much settled on pure nickel 10s on my tele. Feels nice and sounds good enough.
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In a world where everyone is yelling, can anyone hear the man who is speaking more softly? I bought that live album from 1975 when it initially came out (I must have heard about it from somebody, in those days there was a covert network of enthusiasts), and did from time to time through the years put it on and become mesmerized again, in fact I bought the Paul Desmond records just to get more of that amazing comping.
Playing a guitar trio situation, you ultimately learn that time is the medium you work within, the canvas, so to speak. You can shoehorn all the licks you like into every chorus (I tried that too) or you can look for ideas that are more elusive, nuanced, or unpredictable. Having the luxury of time allows you to learn spontaneity. Bickert's harmonic sense is/was a little tame by the modern standards most of us are accustomed to, but that is a minor quibble, just a milder seasoning in the dish.
One more point- I am surprised no one has mentioned the obvious parallels with Ted Green, though Bickert seemed to do almost everything on the top four strings.
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I first heard Bickert on the two-Lp set with Desmond and became a lifelong fan of both - though in some ways, I prefer Desmond with Jim Hall. I agree about Bickert's vanilla harmonic sense but his overall musicality and flow are jaw dropping. His voice leading and and, as you said, execution in time are stunning.
I can understand the parallel with Ted Greene but they are a bit different in how they approached the guitar neck. It seems to me that each studied deeply; Ed often strikes me as a distillation of a big band chart; Ted brought the entire history of harmony into play sometimes leading to finger busting positions on the neck that didn't have the natural flow of a Bickert solo. He was less of an organic player than Bickert and his focus was much wider. Greene could explain 100 genres; Bicket chose to work in just one garden but man, he was a hell of an architect in that limited landscape!Last edited by AndyV; 05-16-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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Ed mentioned being fascinated by the harmonies of the Stan Kenton band and others. I think his chordal approach was indeed a distillation of that.
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They also made another recording together as a duo as a promo for a concert they were doing.
Do you know how one could hear this recording? I've never seen that...
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I too hear a great deal of similarities between Ed and Jim. I know JH recommeded Ed for a gig with (iirc) Paul Desmond when he could not do it, so I assume they were well aware of each other. As far as comping, I feel they are pretty much equals, but for my tastes Jim’s soloing overall just has a little something extra that is sometimes missing from Ed’s. I’m splitting hairs here at the highest and finest level obviously. I know EB walked away from performing after his wife passed which makes one assume he perhaps also didn’t actively pursue and self promote a career as a leader for himself as strongly as a “typical” musician who possesed such lofty talents. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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My personal opinion: Ed was a master craftsman on the instrument, at the top echelon of swing musicians on the guitar. Jim Hall was an artist; what he played transcended the instrument.
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I love Ed Bickert's playing and comping/soloing. As far as I know, he did not compose any pieces. Jim Hall was a fairly productive composer. I expect tunes of his like "All Across The City" , "Big Blues", "Romain" and "Careful" to be covered by future jazz musicians often. Originally Posted by AndyV
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What Ed and Jim Hall had in common was a certain economy and understatement in their approach. While Bickert is revered within this subculture (rightfully so, as evidenced by this discussion), Jim Hall collaborated and recorded over a twenty-year span with the likes of Bill Evans, Sonny Rollins, Ron Carter, and Art Farmer, and put out his own Live in Toronto LP in 1975. I hadn't thought about that, but comparing those two trio recordings from those two guitarists is like comparing the 1966 Ford GT with the model that won its class at Le Mans several years ago; both sophisticated, both successful, but one is just a lot more up-to-date.
Really, I don't know of any guitarists from that era who worked in such a wide range of situations as Jim Hall. I mean, I saw him playing with the Merv Griffin band on afternoon TV when I was in high school (I had that Art Farmer record with Steve Swallow on bass at the time). The guy got hired a lot!
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Jim Hall did indeed play with a wide variety of groups and artists- his first well known bands alone were with Chico Hamilton, then Jimmy Giuffre, etc., and bands like that shaped his approach away from bebop. And then So ny Rollins, Art Farmer, Paul Desmond, etc. On his first record as a leader, you could be forgiven for thinking you'd stuck a Tal Farlow or Jimmy Raney recording on- thunky bebop-Y and kinetic.
Ed played also with a wide variety of musicians, though, but he stuck close to his home in Toronto and rarely toured hence his more limited exposure. But he played with big bands, third stream stuff, duos/trios/quartets as well as having been a thriving studio musician in Toronto.
I think both of them did what they wanted to do. Comparing Jim Hall "versus" Ed Bickert is futile, just as comparing any two other jazz musicians is futile. But since they both played with Paul Desmond, the comparison is sure tempting to me.
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(Also an admirer of Rilke) I agree with that, and I confess to not knowing much about Bickert, other than the 1970s recordings he did, until recently. Also I heard that first record by Hall as a leader, too. Very generic fifties guitar without much to recommend it, but it does indicate that he had a 'road to damascus' moment sometime after that and changed his whole approach after some initial success, and that is interesting to know.
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I agree that comparing them is futile. For me, whichever one of them I'm listening to at any given time becomes my favorite guitarist of the moment. I would love to have heard the jam session that Hall talks about here: Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I realized yesterday (post #44) that there was an interesting Bickert-Hall connection involving their respective trio albums, and a little later, after viewing the above video I decided it warranted some modest investigation. You see, I grew up in a big family, and I have a lot of brothers, and I saw something of that same dynamic from Jim Hall speaking about Ed.
(You are about to enter a dimension of sight, sound, and altered chords with the sharp five on top, the signpost up ahead says: Flat thirteenth? dee-dee-dee-dee).
I present for your examination (and I realize this historical tidbit is probably well known in some circles, but it is new to me despite owning both these records since about 1980), the case of the two 1975 Bickert and Hall trio albums: Recorded in the same month, the same year, the same city, the same rhythm sections, and the same recording engineer (Don Thompson) in each case. The venues are different, the tunes are different, and of course the styles, while sharing a family resemblance, are distinctively different.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
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jim halls on record stating that he enjoyed bickerts trio so much, when he played gigs in canada he used bickerts rhythm section...thompson & clarke..with bickerts blessings
cheers
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Thompson and Clarke played off each other so creatively and musically, that they were easily the equal of any US rhythm section.
I don't see the point in comparing two artist's of the stature of EB and JH.Last edited by sgcim; 07-02-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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Marcos: What are your thoughts on Canadian guitar player Ed Bickert?
Jim Hall: I’ve known Ed for years because I used to play Toronto quite a bit, and I got to know Ed and his whole family. I know his wife died quite a while ago. One of his sons was over here not too long ago. I can’t think of his name right now, but he lives in Europe now. He was doing a book or something about Ed. I remember going to jam sessions years ago with two guitars, Ed Bickert on guitar and Don Thompson on bass and [drummer] Terry Clarke, three great Canadian musicians.I played some things with Paul Desmond and did some records after he left the Brubeck quartet. Paul was going to go to Canada to work so I recommended Ed Bickert. I said, “You have to hear him.” He got Don Thompson playing bass and I forget who the drummer was and Ed Bickert playing guitar, so Paul taped a lot of the stuff. When he came back, he was just raving about Ed Bickert. I have known Ed for a long, long time. He is a marvelous player and great guy.
from great jh interview @-
Jim Hall Interview: Julian Lage Is The New Jazz Guitar Guard
cheers
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Originally Posted by sgcim
Amen!
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In general, I agree. However, with these two particular musicians (Hall and Bickert), there are so many touch points in common that personally, I find comparison illuminating. Comparison doesn't diminish either of them or what they achieved, though it does ignore other factors, such as temperament, opportunity and the realities of making living in jazz.I don't see the point in comparing two artist's of the stature of EB and JH.
Both Hall and Bickert are deserving of the highest accolades and their individual approaches on the instrument will continue to ripple out into the pond of jazz guitar for some time to come.
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I enjoy listening to his playing.... but for me it's a bit - I do not know how to say - too conventional musically... it's a pleasure to listen, it's soothing, it's a real mastery on the instrument...
but as a listener - I feel like there were some more challenge musically... more going beyond conventional frames.
I noticed it often happens that any smooth master on guitar is called genius or something..
But I think master is one thing... and genius is another...
It's not irrespect to Bill of his admirers - don't shoot at me (as usually)!
Recently I listened to his album with pianist Bill Mays I think? It was enjoable listening.
( for those whome it may concern: the album was bought not stolen!)
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