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from wales, brian godding was a very fine toned jazz rock fusion player...very early on...was part of the georgio gomelsky produced brian auger/julie driscoll scene...later played for keith tippett and mike westbrook as well...firey player, especially for that time...ala ollie halsall and alan holdsworth
cheers
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12-31-2017 05:18 PM
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Thanks for the info
Ollie Halsall.....now there was a player...... I saw him often with Patto during my London years, in the Torrington in Fulham, and in the Marquee. He was a very special player indeed; he had everything he needed to become a huge name in guitar playing except the breaks. He died tragically young - what a talent. Fortunately, he recorded quite a lot, in a variety of different bands - he was more rock than jazz in his playing, although the jazz influence was strong. For anyone following this thread who isn't familiar with his playing, here he is with Patto, free-forming over a loose rhythmic structure with bass and drums.......ridiculous to think that when this was recorded, he had only been playing guitar for three or four years.......
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He certainly had his own voice. Fine player indeed.
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I enjoyed your post. To be honest I'm not familiar with most of those guys...
Love that Bernie Holland piece though.
Of course Martin Taylor, John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth...Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 01-01-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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ollie started out playing vibes!!..he was a tremendous player..and a real musical utility man..played bass, sang, (he did the "mccartney" vocal parts in the rutles) etc etc..had the pleasure of seeing him perform a few times, and hung with him on 48th st manhattans guitar row one day...humble but incredible fluid player
Originally Posted by reventlov
Thanks for the info
Ollie Halsall.....now there was a player...... I saw him often with Patto during my London years, in the Torrington in Fulham, and in the Marquee. He was a very special player indeed; he had everything he needed to become a huge name in guitar playing except the breaks. He died tragically young - what a talent. Fortunately, he recorded quite a lot, in a variety of different bands - he was more rock than jazz in his playing, although the jazz influence was strong. For anyone following this thread who isn't familiar with his playing, here he is with Patto, free-forming over a loose rhythmic structure with bass and drums.......ridiculous to think that when this was recorded, he had only been playing guitar for three or four years.......
rip ollie
cheers
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No disrespect, Jeff, but please do. I'd rather keep this thread focussed on its subject. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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I’ve also got a book by Eric Kershaw (Dance Band Chords). Some info about him here:
Eric Kershaw | Gypsy Jazz UK
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Rob.
I don't know if there is an anecdote in Tubby's bio.but it might amuse you to
know that at age 14 he asked Ronnie Scott if he could sit in? Ronnie apparently
condescendingly allowed him on the stand, to be blown away ( no pun intended)
by Tubby's remarkable ability.
Incidentally, he started out on the violin I believe, also accomplished on Flute, all of
the saxes, took up vibraphone and in a year was a tour de force. Very sad we lost
him at a young age.Last edited by silverfoxx; 01-01-2018 at 06:54 AM. Reason: Misspelling
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Well, I'm not surprised. If he was an American, I dare say he would be one of the greatest and biggest names in jazz.
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I have Frank Evans vinyl album from 1976 called Noctuary. All solo pieces arranged by Frank, who set up his own record label to release it.
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Ivor Mairants book.
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Eric Kershaw book.
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Some guitarists!
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Possibly, but one of the crticisms of that last generation of players - Tubby Hayes, Ronnie Scott, Jimmy Deuchar, Jimmy Skidmore, Tommy Whittle, Johnny Dankworth, Peter King, Bobby Wellins, etc was that they were only ever copying the American music. Quite naturally, as after all they had jumped on the cruise ships for a chance to go and see them play in the flesh, and the imported American recordings were revered as source material. It wasn't until after the 50s that British jazz players broke away from the imitation game, started looking at home-grown influences, developed their own free jazz and jazz-rock varieties of a different strain from the US and gave British jazz its own identity and leading players - like Joe Harriott, Ian Carr, Don Rendell, John Surman, Mike Westbrook, Michael Garrick, Kenny Wheeler, Graham Collier, Chris McGregor, Frank Ricotti, Keith Tippett, Henry Lowther, Alan Skidmore, John Stevens, Norma Winstone, Gordon Beck, etc. These were the pioneers of British jazz. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Jim Dale!! Oooh Matron. Originally Posted by grahambop
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A drummer friend of mine has been rehearsing a trio with Bernie recently, doing some of his tunes. In fact I think they may have just done a NYE gig at a local wine bar with Eric Reese. Originally Posted by reventlov
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Award for witty album title - 'Frank Evans...For Little Girls', though perhaps a bit more questionable nowadays than it was back in 1979. Originally Posted by DerekD
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I’m kind of ashamed to say I hadn’t heard of any of the guitarists on your initial link Rob.
Some great clips. Nice to see the clip of Ike Isaacs, it’s the best/longest clip I’ve seen of him. Looks like he’s playing Martin Taylor’s old Yamaha AE1200S (a great guitar, I owned one a while back). The only other clip I’ve seen of Ike he was playing his Aria signature model, I have one, a 15 inch solid top with his name on the end of the fretboard like the Herb Ellis model; apparently he wanted a small guitar to suit his physique.
I hadn’t heard of most of the guitarists on Grahambop’s Hofner poster either, so I can see this thread is going to be an education for me!
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Interesting post, and hard to argue against. When I started this thread I was more concerned with guitar players, those who played jazz to a high standard here. I wasn't necessarily thinking of who were the innovators, the catalysts in creating a unique form of jazz, based in the UK. But then the discussion quickly moved away from guitarists into all players of jazz, irrespective of instrument. And then from pioneers into innovators. So, through no one's fault, things have become somewhat confused. Originally Posted by bleakanddivine
I agree that most of the post 50s names you mention were instrumental, as it were, in creating a separate British Jazz scene, but I'd argue that they couldn't have done so without the pioneering work of those who came before them.
Gary Boyle said in an interview that Motown were their distributors in the States, and when he was there he (or someone in the band) saw Michael Jackson with a copy of Illusion. When asked why he had it, Jackson answered that he liked the British fusion sound, as it was different from the US sound.
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Don't worry, it's an education in parts for me too. That's why I started the thread. Glad you're interested! Originally Posted by sunnysideup
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I don't think that the word 'criticisms' is appropriate for players like Tubby Hayes, and composer/arranger/wind players like Johnny Dankworth. Originally Posted by bleakanddivine
IMHO they were more than just copiers of US music; they had their own recognizable styles and were better than most musicians from any country.
Just because they didn't play free jazz and jazz-rock shouldn't mean they were just imitators.
One of my fave UK jazz guitarists, Terry Smith, who could play both jazz-rock and mainstream jazz equally well, was quoted in the John McLaughlin bio, Bathed in Lightning, as saying that most of the free jazz players in the UK were pretty much incompetent mainstream jazz players.
In the same book, the bass player in the Mahavishnu Orchestra said that he didn't even consider JM a jazz guitarist, in the sense that Jim Hall or Wes were.
You might as well criticize every jazz player other than Louis Armstrong, John Coltrane or Charlie Parker for being just imitators.
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No one's mentioned Jim Mullen yet. Pioneer or innovator? Maybe not but instantly recognisable and an incredible guitarist/musician. Here's Jim being equally playful and fiery over rhythm changes:
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Jim's amazing, no question.
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Oh I thought “pioneers” was up to and including the 50’s, or even earlier – the dance band era, music hall…
but if we’re including 60’s and 70’s guitarists working in the mainstream of jazz at that time (ie not fusion) … then Louis Stewart – his mastery of the bop idiom is absolutely second to none.
Louis was Irish not British of course, but he was active around London from the 70's (and possibly earlier), working with Ronnie Scott and Tubby Hayes, and active right up to his death in 2016.
Jame Holroyd has a few good clips in a similar vein...
4 Great British Jazz Guitarists You Need To Know About - JamieHolroydGuitar.com - Jamie Holroyd Guitar
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Yes, we've quickly moved from guitar pioneers, to all-instrument pioneers, to innovators, to anyone who is really good at playing jazz. I did intend the focus to be on pioneers, but have enjoyed the discussion nonetheless.
Louis Stewart, of course. Major talent.
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