who's the most successful jazz guitarist?

**Robertkoa** · 05-13-2017, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

For all the folks we're discussing, most of that money came a long time ago. Records sales for all genres are usually a fraction of what they were, with a few specific artists breaking out (Beyonce, Gaga). Paul McCartney talked about this in an interview not so long ago- the record company tells him sales are great by current standards, but the volume in a month is what it used to be in a day. Some of that is changing tastes, but most of it is changing buying patterns. Spotify, satellite radio, etc., are way more convenient than buying songs or albums. And the royalties from those are a pittance.

Yeah how the F are' Downloads ' getting away with this ?

Preying on Artists desperate to get their Product out I suppose...

A very old Con...

"Do this Work for very low pay and we will give you a lot MORE Work-( for very low pay).."

**West LA Jazz** · 08-26-2017, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

What are you measuring success by, if financial then Pat Metheny is up there with Benson. After that then I'd say there are some comfortable guitarists, but most are doing it for love of the music.

Doc - IMHO, the only way to make this a fair comparison is to separate George's singing records from his instrumental work. If you add his vocal records, there is no way Pat has sold as many records as George has.

I didn't know this till I read George's bio. He actually started out as a child singer. The guitar came later and even then, it was RnB guitar and singing. He evolved into playing Jazz and picked it up with serious gusto. I believe his many years as a sideman for Jack McDuff is what sent him on a permanent Jazz journey.

Whereas Pat had a more mainstream upbringing in Lee's Summit being raised by two loving parents,
George was raised by mother and a step father who was involved in brothels, gambling etc. Not your average environment for a child. And then fast forward to 19 years old plus; as much as he loved playing music, he really had to find a way to pay the bills and put food on the table for a family that grew to include a wife and 7 children - all boys I might add!

And then we shouldn't forget, George's biggest vocal hits were produced by Quincy Jones who was himself a Jazz to pop (and everything in between) chameleon. As you know, back in the day, records produced by Q were almost a licsence to print money. That was when Warner brothers Records and the music biz were THE music biz. Platinum records left and right!

Curious tidbit. I only found this out 2 years ago. Quincy arranged Frank Sinatra's version of "Fly Me To The Moon" that's instantly familiar to all of us.

I think going by instrumental records alone, I think Pat may have George beat. Just a wild guess but I could be wrong. I should note that Pat has those songs that have the world beat vocal oooh and aaaah's going on so I guess he has singing records too! LOL

PS: Most of George's biggest hits (especially the vocal ones) were written by other writers. Pat writes all his material.

**fasstrack** · 08-26-2017, 09:10 PM

Sorry to bitch, but this is an annoying thread. And, having said that, I'm happy for ANY good player that can make a living, let alone attain fame or riches in the music biz. They deserve it, and worked hard for it.

Does anyone ever talk about Teddy Bunn, John Collins, Eddie Duran (still alive and sounding wonderful)----on and on, so many greats flying under the radar?

'Success' is the luck of the draw and a beauty pageant. Play b/c music is great for the soul and important to the lives of your listeners.

If you worry about 'success' you may lose focus on following your heart...

**ronjazz** · 08-26-2017, 09:45 PM

Its not worrying, it's curiosity. It chit-chat, hardly deep stuff. A phrase like "Pat Metheny has only made $5 million" cracks me up. He's no less successful than any other top player, in any genre. In my opinion, even though he's made far less, he's more successful as an artist than either Kenny G or Andy Summers. I have Summers' "Mister X" or "Madam X", whatever it is, and it's a very nicely-made recording, great sounds and ambiance, but everything is transparently derivative, even though it's a good record. Kenny G, for me personally, has yet to play a single note I like, and he doesn't care. Summers, on the other hand, along with the Edge have actually influenced my jazz accompanying, so I appreciate what they do so well, without having to label it. In the end, having a full-time career performing music of the your choice is real success. I know some very rich people; they seem unhappy and paranoid. Is that success?

**destinytot** · 08-26-2017, 10:52 PM

Me. Right sacrifice, a little discipline and a lot of loving support are paramount.

**lawson-stone** · 08-27-2017, 05:42 PM

In many ways, though he's not my total top favorite, I have to say Pat Metheny. Leave the money aside for a moment. Look at the Grammy Awards garnered, and at the breadth of categories in which he has won them. Also, the willingness to push the audience, and the wisdom to stop pushing when he's moved them a bit, and wait a while. He plays electric, acoustic, solo, ensemble. He does standards, he composes. Many different types of guitars, sound processing setups from minimal to WTF?

Plus, he WORKS. IN concert, I don't think he ever leaves the stage. He puts in a hard night when he performs. My wife, no fan of jazz guitar, was blown away watching him in concert, at the sheer investment of energy and focus you see in PM. And he also performs live a LOT. Some years ago I read that for a long stretch of time, maybe still, he was playing to audiences about 200 nights a year. If even partly accurate, that's just amazing. His commitment to his craft, to composition, to performing in many modes and venues, has certainly won a loyal audience, critical acclaim, and commercial success.

"Most" successful? I don't know, but extremely successful, without going "pop" on us, absolutely.

**fasstrack** · 08-27-2017, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Its not worrying, it's curiosity.

Ah, I was just in a cranky mood. Don't mind me, I'm impossible when I don't get my meds. LOL...

**fasstrack** · 08-27-2017, 06:04 PM

I will add one thing seriously, though:

A guitar player I know on FB (whose name I don't have permission to use) who wouldn't say such things if they weren't true told me either he or someone else asked Wes Montgomery how he felt about his 'success'. He supposedly replied

'It's all bullshit'.

He was also quoted as saying

'You know, I don't HAVE to play'.

I took that to mean that if the stress, etc., started to get on his nerves or old he'd say 'screw this, I'll go back home again and get a job'. Believable, since he was working 3 jobs before he was 'discovered'...

**West LA Jazz** · 08-27-2017, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

In many ways, though he's not my total top favorite, I have to say Pat Metheny. Leave the money aside for a moment. Look at the Grammy Awards garnered, and at the breadth of categories in which he has won them. Also, the willingness to push the audience, and the wisdom to stop pushing when he's moved them a bit, and wait a while. He plays electric, acoustic, solo, ensemble. He does standards, he composes. Many different types of guitars, sound processing setups from minimal to WTF?

Plus, he WORKS. IN concert, I don't think he ever leaves the stage. He puts in a hard night when he performs. My wife, no fan of jazz guitar, was blown away watching him in concert, at the sheer investment of energy and focus you see in PM. And he also performs live a LOT. Some years ago I read that for a long stretch of time, maybe still, he was playing to audiences about 200 nights a year. If even partly accurate, that's just amazing. His commitment to his craft, to composition, to performing in many modes and venues, has certainly won a loyal audience, critical acclaim, and commercial success.

"Most" successful? I don't know, but extremely successful, without going "pop" on us, absolutely.

True that! But's he not broke either. He lives in Manhattan, NY. That's no joke to live there. I ran away from NYC years ago. While his vocal records may not be pop in our sense, that sound is very accessible and he's embraced by my friends from many lands across the sea from Morocco, South Africa to Finland just because he reminds them of their native music - what we call "world beat" or "world music". Impressive.

**Doctor Jeff** · 08-28-2017, 08:08 AM

I think those figures quoted above are spurious clickbait.

It's obvious Benson is the most successful living jazz guitarist in terms of money. Look at how many albums he's made and copies he's sold. He doesn't tour as obsessively as he did in the 70's-80's because he doesn't need to, but he can and does sell out venues anywhere in the world he plays. He lives well because he invested well, at least to some extent.

Next is probably Pat Metheny, based on records sold in the 70's-80's-90's. He does tour a lot now, which is about the only way to make a buck in today's music economy. I would guess Scofield's up there too.

I don't know how the younger generation gets by, but my guess is somewhat haphazard. John Pizzarelli is probably on top of the heap, again because he sings, performs with his wife, plays with big bands, etc.

I just looked through a men's clothing catalogue that featured Julian Lage. A lot of younger players have endorsement deals with guitar or equipment companies or even non-music companies. It helps if you're good looking, personable, and play in a wide variety of settings--Lage plays a lot with Wilco and Nels Cline, for instance.

Best business plan: play well, be cool, marry a supermodel.

**furtom** · 08-28-2017, 11:17 AM

If I could choose between the jazz career and the K-pop...

Sadly, I won't ever have either, so I needn't finish that sentence!

**fasstrack** · 08-28-2017, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

Best business plan: play well, be cool, marry a supermodel.

Um, you got Cindy Crawford's #?

**sundogg52** · 08-28-2017, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Do we really want to measure success in monetary terms? I can't imagine myself ever coming up with that question. Sorry. As for the result, frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a damn.

It really was a simple question Rob, there are very few barometers by which to measure success beyond personal fulfillment and satisfaction. Some of us do this for a living. I just don't see the need to get snarky about a guitarist asking a simple question. And so we all might be as enlightened as you appear to be how would you measure success?

**sundogg52** · 08-28-2017, 01:27 PM

I would have to include John Pizzarelli, Anthony Wilson, John Pisano, Pat Martino. Probably not 'rich' but they've done well.

**fep** · 08-28-2017, 04:56 PM

I can't understand how Benson's and Metheny's net worth is only 5 million. I think they missed a zero on that figure and it should be about 50 million.

They both play at a local venue, Humphrey's by the Bay, from time to time. Seats 1200 ticket prices around $100. That's $120,000...

Even if Metheny only nets 1/5th (I'd guess it's a bit more than that though), that's $24,000 for one show. And he does a lot of shows. 100 shows in a year would be more than 2 million. At that pace it would be hard to be worth only 5 million.

**Doctor Jeff** · 08-28-2017, 05:07 PM

It has been posted elsewhere that that "net worth" webpage is just clickbait--it has no relationship to reality. Benson at least should be worth many multiples of $5 million. I've known dermatologists worth that much... :-/

Unless, of course, he mismanaged his money, but I don't think that's the case. He has bought and sold several houses in NJ and AZ which were listed the last several years for $2-3 million each. He seems to have a pretty good business sense.

I would imagine Metheny is worth more than $5 million, though let's not kid ourselves, that's a lot of money for a guy who just plays guitar and doesn't have a hair stylist on retainer.

**lammie200** · 08-28-2017, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

...that's a lot of money for a guy who just plays guitar and doesn't have a hair stylist on retainer.

I may be alone on this but I think that his hair stylist is a transplant doctor. I seem to recall seeing him with a bald spot many years back. Nothing wrong with any of it, just an observation. Could be wrong myself, but I know that his hair is a topic that gets batted around the internet from time to time. I am actually glad that no one seems to know for sure.

I am really wrong.