Who killed Lenny Breau?

**docbop** · 11-09-2010, 12:03 AM

I remember getting to attend a Lenny clinic back in the late 70's. I don't know it if was Jewel, but it was a woman with Lenny who arranged with a local music store for a room for the clinic. It was only something like $25 for the clinic. It ended up being only about 10 of us in a small room with Lenny playing and answering questions for 2 or 3 hours. It was amazing and getting to sit that close and watch him play. The music store owner said money was tight for Lenny so they just let him keep all the money. It was a great day for all.

**Jazzyteach65** · 11-09-2010, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Davo

Hi folks. I just ran into a guitar player here in Nashville (I'm a retired trumpet player) and we soon found that we both knew Lenny 'back in the day.' He told me that Lenny has become a widely known legend as he certainly deserved to be. But I'm astounded at the amount of info that came up when I 'Googled' him up. Wow! That's how I found this forum.

Throughout the 70's and into the 80's Lenny spent about 3 months every year in Toronto, 3 months in L.A., 3 in Nashville, and 3 in NY. That seemed to be his life at the time. Several of us took turns being Lenny's "keeper" while he was in Nashville. I would go and find him passed out on the floor of a dirty apartment, bring him around, then take him out and put food in him to keep him alive. With Lenny, you just never knew when you'd get the bad news that we all knew was coming.

He met Jewel and things changed...............for the better. I'm not challenging the negative opinions of her shared here and elsewhere, but I'm here to testify that there was another side to the story as well. She cleaned him up, got him sober and healthy, and got him focused again on his career. He even got straight enough for me to take him into a studio for some recording that I have never bothered to mix down. Great music, of course, but to get the real essence of his genius, you needed to have him in a small club atmosphere, surrounded by his friends. The studio just couldn't bring out the natural "performer" in this man. Incidentally, another mutual friend, the late Richard Cotten, did exactly that.............recorded miles and miles of live performances, most of which Richard accompanied Lenny on bass. I wonder where those recordings ever ended up.

The Nashville Jazz Machine was an 18-piece rehearsal band made up of Nashville's 'A-team' of studio players back then. As I was privileged to serve as the band's leader, I constantly got calls from club owners to help them find and book small groups for the resurgence in jazz popularity we were enjoying at the time. Jewel would call me from L.A., tell me they would be in Nashville in a couple of weeks, and ask me to get Lenny some work. She was so protective of him she would always remind me to have a room away from the crowd that we could rush Lenny to between sets, before the dealers and ignorant hangers-on could get to him and get him high. He had no self control whatsoever.

Now, maybe Jewel was his killer, and maybe not. But what I saw was a woman dedicated to Lenny's protection and well-being. Lenny was reported to have been strangled. Do you know how much physical strength it takes to strangle another human being? Do you realize how much time one must hold the victims throat shut? Much more time and strength than the movies portray, and certainly much more than most women are capable of. Besides, Lenny had a short neck, and that would make strangulation even more physically difficult for anyone to succeed with. And forget the "inheritance" motive...........Lenny never had 2 quarters to rub together all the years I knew him.

I hope you guitar guys don't mind this old trumpet player encroaching into your domain here. But I just thought you might like to hear another side to the tragic saga surrounding the genius we were blessed to know, Lenny Breau.

Dave Converse

Do you happen to know a guitarist named Raj Rathor than hung around Lenny at the time? He's a buddy and mentor of mine here in Vegas. He learned from Lenny and is quoted in the book.

**smoore** · 11-09-2010, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Davo

Incidentally, another mutual friend, the late Richard Cotten, did exactly that.............recorded miles and miles of live performances, most of which Richard accompanied Lenny on bass. I wonder where those recordings ever ended up.
Dave Converse

Some of that material is available from Randy Bachman's site: Guitarchives Music Inc.
Look in the "Store" for an album called "Pickin Cotten". As you say, it's Lenny with Richard Cotten, mostly on bass.
Lots of other interesting tidbits there as well.

**M-ster** · 11-09-2010, 02:14 AM

Thanks, Davo. Interesting post.

**Davo** · 11-09-2010, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by smoore

Some of that material is available from Randy Bachman's site: Guitarchives Music Inc.
Look in the "Store" for an album called "Pickin Cotten". As you say, it's Lenny with Richard Cotten, mostly on bass.
Lots of other interesting tidbits there as well.

Thanks. Glad to know those tapes didn't get lost after Richard passed away. BTW, the clinic one of you mentioned earlier was most likely held at Richard's guitar shop (Cotten Music), where another semi-legend, bass virtuoso Chuck Sanders, worked part time. Richard sold only guitar oriented merchandise, except for the trumpet valve oil he kindly kept in stock for me (LOL) because his store was in the neighborhood I lived in.

One thing that strikes my memory from those years was how Lenny would find the musical beauty within a seemingly dumb tune most of us would instantly discard. I remember him telling me about "Orange Blossom Special" and I thought he was just jerkin' on me. But when he played it, it became clear that he was like Ray Charles, in that he could 'find the soul' in any tune and bring it out.

On several occasions, Lenny asked me to get some charts written for him to play with the 'Jazz Machine.' He was serious. I always said "sure man, we'll do just that," while thinking, "have that fire-breathing big band stomping on Lenny's quiet, subtle style?........Never!" Considering my previous paragraph, however, maybe I should have followed through. Lenny probably would have found a way to..............

Dave Converse

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

Do you happen to know a guitarist named Raj Rathor than hung around Lenny at the time? He's a buddy and mentor of mine here in Vegas. He learned from Lenny and is quoted in the book.

Sorry. Don't recall meeting Raj. But then, getting old means never having to say "I remember.........." (LOL)

**ChuckCorbis** · 12-12-2010, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

I had always assumed it was a drug-related thing in some way, a la Chet Baker. "The autopsy" proved that he was strangled????? Holey Moley and Wow. Unbelievable. Where is the justice?? Is someone asleep at the wheel or something?

Bruce Weber's portrayal of Chet with his docu-drama about his life made Chet Baker suicidal. Clearly a non-musician's perspective of a life of a great jazz musician. He paid him $20,000 to do it. IMO, Chet felt horrible about the whole thing and the way it was portrayed and I think that made him suicidal. Take a look for yourselves and imagine how Chet reacted after it was released. Musicians are very sensitive and unpredictable human beings.

EDIT- I know my post seems OT but things are not always what they seem to be. It would be a hell of a tragedy to blame his wife if she is in fact innocent. Especially when we are dealing with circumstantial evidence and speculation only.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-06-2011, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero

Bruce Weber's portrayal of Chet with his docu-drama about his life made Chet Baker suicidal. Clearly a non-musician's perspective of a life of a great jazz musician. He paid him $20,000 to do it. IMO, Chet felt horrible about the whole thing and the way it was portrayed and I think that made him suicidal. Take a look for yourselves and imagine how Chet reacted after it was released. Musicians are very sensitive and unpredictable human beings.

Chet died while Weber and Nan Bush were still editing the footage into the film, he never saw the final product nor saw anyone else's reaction as it was released to the public four months after he died.

Now, Carol Baker, on the other hand...let's just say, not a Bruce Weber fan.

**ChuckCorbis** · 01-06-2011, 11:59 PM

The reaction to the film was wonderful. Everybody thought it was fabulous. But there were some very, very troublesome scenes in that film. I really think Chet regretted the whole thing. I never heard anyone express anything negative about it. Which is UNBELIEVABLE.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-07-2011, 09:25 AM

I'm just saying, you can't imagine how chet reacted after it was released because he was dead by then. It certainly didn't make him suicidal, he never saw it.

If the Chet story interests you, James Gavin's "Deep in a Dream" is an excellent read.

Chet was pretty ambivalent about the movie, as he was about most "gigs" he took toward the end. He took the money.

**ChuckCorbis** · 01-07-2011, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm just saying, you can't imagine how chet reacted after it was released because he was dead by then. It certainly didn't make him suicidal, he never saw it.

If the Chet story interests you, James Gavin's "Deep in a Dream" is an excellent read.

Chet was pretty ambivalent about the movie, as he was about most "gigs" he took toward the end. He took the money.

I stand corrected. I was being sarcastic initially and using the Chet Baker accidental fall out of a 2 story window as an example because it seems that there was a assertion in this thread that Lenny's wife killed him when that may not be so. No one knows. It's a mystery. Chet took the money is right. He was paid a fee which enabled Weber and Bush to exploit his drug use. Some things should be private. When a heroin addict needs his shit he'll do anything, right? That's my problem with the circumstances of the making of the movie. But I appreciate the recomendation of James Gavin's book. What was Carol Baker's issue with Weber? Don't tell me. ....................Was it the MONEY?

**mr. beaumont** · 01-08-2011, 09:39 AM

Well, the fact she didn't see anything of it probably, even though she was still legally married to Chet, probably had something to do with it.

But the movie makes her look like a class-A raving bitch. Of course, she had every right to be...but...it also makes Ruth Young look pretty charming, and actually like she was pretty good for Chet.

See it if you can...it's scary and kind of beautiful too. It's less a movie about Chet as it is a movie about Bruce Weber and how he'd like to remember Chet, but unfortunately for him, Chet was actually in it!

**littleduke** · 11-02-2013, 05:39 AM

Dave Converse...You are a good man. To share your story with us is very generous and i'd like to thank you for your clear insight on two very troubled souls...It hurts that Lenny Breau is no longer with us and it doesn't help to try and figure how he died...I just got to shake Dave Young's hand this evening and he recorded with Lenny just a year before he died. I only wanted to talk about his recordings with him and it was a beautiful evening of music and conversation...hold onto the good stuff brother and thanks again...

**docbop** · 11-02-2013, 10:51 AM

I just remember a couple years before he died I went he did a guitar clinic at Valley Arts guitar and I was shocked only about ten people were there. It was great just a few of us in a room with Lenny for a few hours listening to him play and answer questions. I think it was Lenny's wife who was checking people in and collecting the money for the clinic. From what I heard Lenny was having tough time so Valley Arts' just let use the room so he could make some money.

**littleduke** · 11-02-2013, 10:49 PM

Somewhere in my cluttered basement i have a video of one such event that you describe...it's a grainy VCR recording and it was described as ..." For Lenny Breau Fans Only"...I didn't care what the quality of video was...i just wanted to see him play. I'm 57 years young and didn't get into Lenny until after his death...I know a few camp fire chords and play the same chords on pianos...i'm a hack and i knew it early on...I played third trumpet in school band as well as Sea Cadets. My main passion is turning people onto forms of music and i have some very fine playback gear...Tape, Vinyl and Digital...If you guys keep recording, i'll keep buying. I live in Edmonton Alberta Canada and Lenny met his first wife here in the mid seventies while recording a gig for the CBC. They had a daughter named Emily...She wouldn't remember me but i met her a number of times at the Commercial Hotel at what's called "Blues on Whyte"...I hope i can meet her again...

**wizard3739** · 11-03-2013, 12:44 AM

Both Lenny and Chet had a lifetime of serious drug problems. It is probably best that we remember and enjoy the music they left for us.

wiz

**Daniel Kuryliak** · 11-05-2013, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Dudley DoRight didn't get his man, it would seem.

Maybe if those Canadians got off their high horse now and then they'd solve something........

Ya, right! ..and...If you had taken the time to read Wiki on Lenny Breau, you may have learned that he died in LA, so maybe you should call the famous LA police to come out of their donut shops and re-open the investigation..but I doubt after all these years they will solve the case.

" After a disastrous Canadian tour during which Breau was often too incapacitated by drugs and booze to play, the couple bounced around, living in Portland (where he played Caffé Domus and the Hour Glass) and Auburn. During a Toronto guitar workshop, he rambled on about being “possessed by the music,” but Forbes-Roberts writes that he sounded like “a frightened, anxious man frantically trying to reassure himself that his devotion to his art . . . has had meaning and worth.”Breau’s wife finally dragged him off to Los Angeles, where the couple fought frequently, while he worked sporadically and drank heavily.

On August 12, 1984, his body was discovered at the bottom of his apartment building’s rooftop pool. At first, it was thought he’d drowned, but an autopsy revealed he’d been strangled. His wife was — and is — the prime suspect, although she’s never been charged. Officially, his murder remains unsolved.

**khasab** · 11-06-2013, 03:50 AM

No, the autopsy found he had been strangled. The case has never been solved.

**Daniel Kuryliak** · 11-06-2013, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by khasab

No, the autopsy found he had been strangled. The case has never been solved.

That's what I quoted in my post above..he was found at the bottom of the pool strangled. Whomever strangled him
after a fight (maybe in his drunken-drug induced stupor) pushed him into the pool to make sure he was dead and
as an alibi that he was too drunk to swim. If there were no witnesses or any other evidence, under US law, the
so called "wife" would be presumed innocent until proven guilty..and it would be hard to prove that she did it..
even though the circumstantial evidence certainly would point that way.

FLY-On-THE-WALL (Lenny's apt in LA) Wife comes home after visit to bank...

Wife: "You %^**! moron! We are BROKE!!! you spent our last dollar on drugs and booze..
when are you going back to work again so we can have some MON-ney?

Lenny: "Back off B**ch! Man.. can't you see I'm busy....ah..working...on..my..next tune..for....

Wife: "You never listen to me!!!...OOOOOO!!!!!! I could just strangle you!"

Agggghhh!..sploosh!

**ChuckCorbis** · 11-06-2013, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Daniel Kuryliak

If there were no witnesses or any other evidence, under US law, the
so called "wife" would be presumed innocent until proven guilty..and it would be hard to prove that she did it..
even though the circumstantial evidence certainly would point that way.

Canadian Law as well.

http://scc.lexum.org/decisia-scc-csc.../3576/index.do

**Daniel Kuryliak** · 11-06-2013, 06:57 AM

Read the SCC ruling. Just goes to prove that in certain circumstances one can get away with murder.
Ok..better get some jazz guitar content in here.

Lenny was certainly a genius in his own right. His understanding of different tunings and ample use of harmonics, placed him as one of the upper echelon of accomplished jazz greats..the only problem is that.unlike Wes Montgomery, who got a break from the club scenes to go commercial and get recognized as a popular artist, Lenny didn't quite make it. In the end, the drugs started to affect him and did him in, even if not by his own "hand".

It's too bad in a way, because had he lived, he would be well up there now with some of the others.
Being from Canada, it would have bolstered our musical history more than being a musician in obscurity.
I remember Randy Bachman (Guess Who; Bachman-Turner Overdrive) mentioning that Lenny was in Winnipeg in Randy's early formative years and Randy picked up a lot of riffs and jazz chords from just jamming with Lenny.

excerpt from Wiki:
The Breau family moved to Winnipeg, in 1957, and their new band travelled and performed around the city and province as the CKY Caravan. Their shows were broadcast live on Winnipeg's CKY on Saturday mornings from various remote locations One of their regular listeners was Randy Bachman, who was sixteen years of age at the time. On one occasion Bachman bicycled to a Caravan performance in Bachman's neighborhood and ended up meeting Breau. Breau and Bachman soon became friends, and Breau informally began teaching Bachman, who has since described those lessons as "...the beginning of my life as a guitar player."

Wish I had lived in Winnipeg in those years..I would be about 12 in 1957..and playing around with a old warped neck /high action"Sears" western motif (Cowboy and lasso) painted on the top.... steel string.

**stratcat33511** · 11-07-2013, 05:18 PM

maybe it was joe diorio then ?

**ChuckCorbis** · 11-08-2013, 04:31 AM

HA...HA....and what about Joe? Continue................just curious where this is going?

**dradu** · 12-15-2014, 06:50 PM

Not sure Canadian police investigte murders in the Los Angeles.

**docbop** · 12-15-2014, 08:43 PM

What's it matter he was a great musician and he's gone and nothing can bring him back.

As someone else pointed out he had a lot of demons like appears most the ultra creative people do so in long run it was his demons that did him in. I went to one of Lenny's clinics he was doing to make some money around that time, his wife was the one collecting the money and getting Lenny whatever he needed. Talking to others they said she did a lot to take care of him. Caring for a junkie isn't easy.

My view is the cops aren't going to do anything at this point, so let it go it's just kicking dirt on his grave talking about it, better to just listen and talk about his music and honor him.