who is the hippest jazz player in the universe?

[Groyniad]

in a way being hip is what it is all about

jazz invented hip

there is no hip without jazz

okay

so who is the hippest of all the hip jazz cats?

my answer - which i know you're all terribly keen to discover is

wynton kelly

now beat that (plausibly and without being overly eccentric)

e.g. on 'no blues' he is at least as hip as wes

who did everyone want on their records at the hippest time ever?

wynton kelly

and they were not all wrong

so the answer is

wynton kelly

(ps if anyone tells me this is all subjective or a matter of personal taste i'm very very tempted to say that you can just ....

there's an objective difference between good players and bad that can be articulated very clearly through an analysis of what and how they play. if there was not we would have NOTHING to talk about and there would be no such forum as this. the fact that it can be difficult to talk about these things or establish a consensus about them does not mean that we are really talking about our private personal feelings. its hard to reach a consensus about the weather - even if you're a meteorologist - but meteorology does not consist in people reporting their personal impressions or feelings. at the same time of course there is no way to find a conclusive answer to a question like this that would satisfy all reasonable jazzers - that's why its just a bit of fun really. )

anyway - come up with a player who might realistically be considered to play more hip more of the time than wynton

thank you

[mr. beaumont]

[Nate Miller]

well, of course there's me and then there's....

for my money its hard to out hip Pharoah Sanders

[Dennis D]

..Well, ( almost always ) whatever the premise, or whatever the question, if the conclusion reached / or question answered is or contains ' Smokin At the Half Note ' I'll never disagree. ( provided it's complimentary of course ).

MHO

[MarkRhodes]

I would say Louis Armstrong.
And after Louis, Miles.

[Lazz]

Lord Buckley

[SamBooka]

Guitar? Howard Roberts.. those shades man..

[Groyniad]

I would say Louis Armstrong.
And after Louis, Miles.

i'm very sympathetic indeed to the first one here - but i'm strangely resistant to the second

(like most people - i've more miles records than anyone else - but, well, i'm probably just not hip enough to quite appreciate his great hipness)

[Groyniad]

well, of course there's me and then there's....

for my money its hard to out hip Pharoah Sanders

this is heavy heavy stuff - but heavy ain't quite the same as hip

(isn't hip - lighter?)

[AlainJazz]

Ok, I'll be boring and just say Wes. I really think he is the hippest.

[boatheelmusic]

Grant Green

[Groyniad]

Ok, I'll be boring and just say Wes. I really think he is the hippest.

thanks alain - i may well do too

and 'no blues' is as good as anything for pitting them one against the other (in the hippest possible spirit of fellowship)

if anything wes' solo is even hipper than wynton's

(his comping is even hipper than wynton's for sure....)

----

if jazz guitar has indeed provided the hippest player (and following Alain i think he is a super-good contender) - then that's a big deal for jazz guitar

'free and easy' were the words i found in my mind whilst listening to wes this morning

and then again watching him play 'full house' with stan tracey on youtube - same thing - free and easy

its in his whole manner - he hears it all so easy

[srlank]

I don't have access to Youtube for some examples, but I would think Lenny Breau would at least be a strong contender. Lots of examples, but currently listening to 'On Green Dolphin Street' --Lenny and Richard Cotten on 'Pickin' Cotten.'

Edit: Now listening to him playing solo on 'Cabin Fever'--'What is This Thing Called Love.' As has been discussed, it is difficult to pull-off solo jazz guitar and keep a listener's attention, but Lenny does it.

[Nate Miller]

this is heavy heavy stuff - but heavy ain't quite the same as hip

(isn't hip - lighter?)

I got to be around him there in Houston when I was a teenager

he's pretty hip for real

and when he'd come down to the Sunday night jams at Lott's and take over, man, it was really something to be there in a small club when he was on the bandstand. Absolute steel chops. Never heard anybody overblow a horn like him

he's not only heavy, but the notes he chooses to play are really hip. I have a double albumn "Live in Seattle" with him and John Coltrane

so put it all together...steel chops, always wearing cool threads, knows all sorts of hip afterhours joints, his name is Pharoah Sanders for crying out loud...AND he played with Trane?

like I said, for my money, its hard to out hip Pharoah Sanders

[rictroll]

Jo Jones!

[AlainJazz]

thanks alain - i may well do too

and 'no blues' is as good as anything for pitting them one against the other (in the hippest possible spirit of fellowship)

if anything wes' solo is even hipper than wynton's

(his comping is even hipper than wynton's for sure....)

----

if jazz guitar has indeed provided the hippest player (and following Alain i think he is a super-good contender) - then that's a big deal for jazz guitar

'free and easy' were the words i found in my mind whilst listening to wes this morning

and then again watching him play 'full house' with stan tracey on youtube - same thing - free and easy

its in his whole manner - he hears it all so easy

For sure, there are a lot of great great players out there but for me, Wes defines hip. His lines are always surprising and cool. His solos just move me like no one else.

[Groyniad]

and - Alain - i get more and more into his sound

hard to find words for this - but there's a 3 dimensionality to it - the stringy metallic top end and the woody backing

i think its a really compelling jazz-sound and i don't hear any other guitarist getting anywhere near it

obvious reasons for that i suppose (his unique technique etc.)

but you get bored - generally - listening to guitar even amazing guitar - in a way you don't so often with horns especially

i think jim hall produces real depth and complex texture in his sound

but no-one does it to the degree that wes does (django is the other name here i think)

but its very rare

here's an example:

i'm really into ron eschete at the moment (especially is wonderful versions of lonesome road on youtube)

but this guitar sound is 2 dimensional compared to wes - and the electric bass sound is 1 dimensional (great player mind)

[lawson-stone]

You know, on so many categories there could be a real debate. Who was the most innovative? Who was the most versatile?

But "hip" for me led precisely to one, and only one conclusion, with which I know the OP will agree.

If you say "most hip ever" in the context of guitar, even if I had full frontal lobe brain damage from some catastrophic accident, I would arise from my coma, and with wild eyes glaring, shout out:

WES MONTGOMERY-SMOKIN AT THE HALF-NOTE

I am unable to even imagine an alternative to consider. This album defined something, established something, and I simply can't get away from it's utter dominance in jazz guitar hipness, and sure, even general hipness.

I can't recall where I read it, but someone once praised a caucasian pianist by asking, "How could a guy look like Leonard Feather and play like Wynton Kelly?"

[NoReply]

Coltrane of course and Ornette as a 2nd choice. Hip is about living on the bleeding edge of creativity, pushing boundaries exactly what real Jazz is about.

[smokinguit]

As Mr. B pointed out, what is hip? If hip in jazz means style or being "cool, then Miles wins hands down. Didn't he invent "cool" as in "birth of the cool".

[smokinguit]

That great version of equinox by Pharaoh Sanders is not hip. I would say that's deep.

[TH]

An often overlooked and much maligned saxophone player. I think he's kinda hip and groovy though.

He plays music I can recognize, and I know he doesn't play guitar (at least I don't think he does, he may have many unrecognized talents) but he does play soprano sax, which I think John Coltrane played too. Not many players can make that claim.

David

[Groyniad]

Coltrane of course and Ornette as a 2nd choice. Hip is about living on the bleeding edge of creativity, pushing boundaries exactly was real Jazz is about.

maybe - but i think this is more about who the greatest jazz genius is - and that's a different question (the answer to which - i think - is bird not coltrane - but that's totally fine - i'd probably put ornette second too...)

'hip' has to be a tad more accessible or human or less godlike etc.

when i suggest that its really all about being hip - that's probably going to far

the ultimate thing is sheer creativity - and that goes beyond hip

that's why wynton seems to me to be a plausible candidate for the greatest

(he's certainly not the most creative)

[Groyniad]

An often overlooked and much maligned saxophone player. I think he's kinda hip and groovy though.

He plays music I can recognize, and I know he doesn't play guitar (at least I don't think he does, he may have many unrecognized talents) but he does play soprano sax, which I think John Coltrane played too. Not many players can make that claim.

David

i think i played with coltrane once - but its all a bit vague now

[Groyniad]

As Mr. B pointed out, what is hip? If hip in jazz means style or being "cool, then Miles wins hands down. Didn't he invent "cool" as in "birth of the cool".

if i didn't think i could rely on a well enough established meaning of 'hip' that everyone was more or less familiar with i would not have made the post

- and you seem to have a good idea - because miles is a very strong candidate

say the intro to 'it never entered my mind' on workin'

one might rest a plausible case on that (and he's being deliberately unhip in that pseudo-classical intro..!)