Joe Sgro, South Philly guitar virtuoso

[MarkRhodes]

Nothing yet from Tony D or Robert Conti. Dang. Well, we'll leave the light on for 'em! ;o)

[jazzuki]

Mark. In one of Robert Conti's Transcription books,it is stated that he, Conti" is mainly self-taught after a dozen lessons from Joe Sgro and whom he credits as an early influence".

[MarkRhodes]

According to the blurbs on the Guitar Master site, picking instructions based on the "JS Slur-Alternate System" are included in the Tillman books. Worldcat lists only the University of Texas libraries as holding a copy of these books. Perhaps a member here could have a look and report their findings.

I ordered the Hanon book and expect it soon. James Hillman, the author of the Guitar Master series, wrote the following to me in an email:

>>>>>My books are not based on improvising, but more
geared to developing technique and skill in performing
over the full range of the instrument. I decided to add
the Joe Sgro picking system to my books, and this caused
me to thoroughly learn the picking system.


Joe checked the accuracy of the picking and give me in
writing his endorsement and permission to teach his
system and use his pictures. He said that he had never
endorsed any product before, even though he had been

often approached by major guitar manufactures.<<<<<<

I'm curious about the Sgro picking system and how it compares with what Jimmy Bruno teaches in "The Art of Picking."
I'm also interested in the 3-octave scale approach.

[MarkRhodes]

Mark. In one of Robert Conti's Transcription books,it is stated that he, Conti" is mainly self-taught after a dozen lessons from Joe Sgro and whom he credits as an early influence".

Conti is where I first heard Joe Sgro's name. I think it was Sgro who got Conti to play Wohlfahrt etudes. (Conti uses 7 or 8 of them in his book "Precision Technique" and I would like to know if Conti fingers them the way Joe Sgro did. For the record, Conti does NOT finger them the way Jimmy Bruno does.)

[unknownguitarplayer]

This is a from a book chapter by a former student of Joe Sgro. He provides some background and describes the approach, including some exercises and a Wohlfahrt piece with pick markings by Sgro.

https://books.google.com/books?id=dO...20sgro&f=false

[MarkRhodes]

Here is a video of Joe Lano, another Philly guitarist. Unfortunately, the video captures his fretting but not his picking hand. But it's a chance to hear him. I think Lano taught Jimmy Bruno a lot.

[MarkRhodes]

This is a from a book chapter by a former student of Joe Sgro. He provides some background and describes the approach, including some exercises and a Wohlfahrt piece with pick markings by Sgro.

In Tillman's Hanon book, the picking indications are few but generally clear: the first stroke may be indicated and there will be no more indications so long as the picking alternates normally; the indications come when something other than strict alternate picking (such as a slur, which for Sgro was a picking term, not a fingering term).

[sgcim]

In Tillman's Hanon book, the picking indications are few but generally clear: the first stroke may be indicated and there will be no more indications so long as the picking alternates normally; the indications come when something other than strict alternate picking (such as a slur, which for Sgro was a picking term, not a fingering term).

Mark, which Tillman Hanon book did you get? He's got four different versions:
Three Octaves
Book One
Book Two
Books One and Two

Which one do you recommend?

[MarkRhodes]

Mark, which Tillman Hanon book did you get? He's got four different versions:
Three Octaves
Book One
Book Two
Books One and Two

Which one do you recommend?

I have "Three Octaves." I think One and Two include tab for non-readers. I think "Three Octaves" just continues some of the exercises / etudes longer than in the original, but I'm not sure about that. (I haven't seen the other books.) But I can give you his phone number so you can call him and ask for his advice. I think he's retired and likes to talk about this.

[sgcim]

I have "Three Octaves." I think One and Two include tab for non-readers. I think "Three Octaves" just continues some of the exercises / etudes longer than in the original, but I'm not sure about that. (I haven't seen the other books.) But I can give you his phone number so you can call him and ask for his advice. I think he's retired and likes to talk about this.

Thanks for the advice!

[Jerry Christopher Sr.]

If any one is interested and would like to talk about Joe Sgro I new him well and studied with him in the late 60's. I am a professional guitarist and made my living performing in the Philly area from about 1965 to 1971, I then moved to New Orleans and I have been playing here ever since. I have always said that without Joe's guidance I don't think that I would have had been able to make it as a full time professional guitarist.

Jerry Christopher Sr.

[snailspace]

If any one is interested and would like to talk about Joe Sgro I new him well and studied with him in the late 60's. I am a professional guitarist and made my living performing in the Philly area from about 1965 to 1971, I then moved to New Orleans and I have been playing here ever since. I have always said that without Joe's guidance I don't think that I would have had been able to make it as a full time professional guitarist.

Jerry Christopher Sr.

I'd be glad to know anything you would care to share -- particularly about what/how he taught, and any other aspects of his guidance that would help others appreciate his influence as a teacher.

[Jerry Christopher Sr.]

I met Joe When I was 16 years old, I had been performing for two summers with the Richard Brown trio in Wild Wood New Jersey and at the end of the summer season I returned to Philly and my dad, a professional guitarist told me that I should contact Joe and get some lessons so I did. Joe taught from an upper room in his South Philly home on Moore Street. He asked me to play something, so I did, he than told me that he new exactly what I needed. Joe's lessons where only 20 minuets long, he did not give long explanations, he said that he can show you something in two minuets and it would take a year or two for your to be able to execute it. He had developed a teaching method that was quick and effective. I believe that he had one great advantage over most teachers and that is that his students were either destined to become professionals or that they were serious hobbyists. He told me that at one time he wrote all his lessons out but when I was studying with him he got the information out using simple number charts which he would write for you at the time of the lesson and a few simple chord charts. Each lesson would start with him writing out two finger exercises, he developed a system that was endless, each week he could always come up with two new exercises. He would then give you a few three octave scales and arpeggios, he would follow that by giving you a few chord scales. These chord scales were something that he designed and again they were endless and a great tool for any guitarist especially a jazz player. The last thing was a reading exercise from Hannon for guitar or a violin book. When there was enough time he would quickly write out a song for you to learn as a melody and chord piece using his chord scales. I know some teachers who tell me that they need at least an hour or more to explain their lessons but Joe's direct and economical way of teaching broke through the BS and got right to what you needed. After 50 years as a full time professional guitarist I cannot pick up my guitar without thinking about Joe.

[PMB]

Jerry, did Joe Sgro ever mention Chuck Wayne in his lessons? Joe's consecutive picking seems to have been derived from violin technique and was developed around the same time that Wayne adopted that approach in an attempt to transfer Parker-like phrasing onto the guitar.

[Jerry Christopher Sr.]

Joe never mentioned Chuck Wayne to me and this is the first time that I heard about the connection to violin technique but it makes perfect sense. James Tillman would know more about that. I met James on line and on a trip to Philly some years back I met with James at his home. If you are interested in learning about Joe's picking technique I don't think any body can explain it better than James. Several years ago I did a demo for James demonstrating the technique, James actually played it for Joe.

[snailspace]

I know some teachers who tell me that they need at least an hour or more to explain their lessons but Joe's direct and economical way of teaching broke through the BS and got right to what you needed.

That's great stuff, Jerry -- many thanks. Dennis Sandole is reported to have said, "If I had to learn guitar all over again, I'd be a student of Joe Sgro." Sounds like he had a way of giving students just what they needed, and a sequence to keep them moving forward -- without over-complicating things.

[jasaco]

...Joe's lessons where only 20 minuets long, he did not give long explanations, he said that he can show you something in two minuets and it would take a year or two for your to be able to execute it. ...

Yeah, that's the same as what I'd heard about Sandole's lessons. Maybe even shorter than 20 min. Then you went away for as long as you needed to woodshed the lesson before coming back for another short, directed exercise to learn.

[unknownguitarplayer]

A student of Joe Sgro's played me a sound on sound recording of Joe playing bass, chords and then soloing on a standard. He told me that Joe used these as demonstrations for his students. Jerry, did you run across anything like this?

[Jerry Christopher Sr.]

It may be hard to believe, but even as a student I never heard Joe play much. He would pick up the guitar at times and play for a very short time but those brief moments of listening to him play were very inspiring. A few years back I was playing at the House of Blues in New Orleans for an out of town group and a married couple came up to me and said that when I played I sounded like a friend of theres who plays guitar, I asked what was his name and they said Joe Sgro, of course I told them that I was his student. It turned out that they where members of his church. To answer your question I remember Joe putting in his office a tape recorder I assume that he did the recordings after I stopped taken lessons with him.

[sjl]

This thread is pure jazz history.

[snailspace]

This thread is pure jazz history.

I agree, and it's fascinating stuff -- the players who taught the players. Awhile back, I came across some information about a Brooklyn-based musician named Rector Bailey, who taught a ton of people in his day. One of them was Mickey Baker, who said of Bailey, "I stole everything I could from him, and made my honey from it." Much of Baker's influential jazz instruction book is said to have come from Bailey's lessons. I haven't been able to find much else about Rector Bailey, and I'd love to learn more. Just about all I know comes from these four sources:
THE JAZZ GUITARIST (with forays into related genres): Mickey Baker
Who was Rector Bailey?
Mickey Baker, Guitarist Whose Riffs Echo Today, Dies at 87 - The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/1970/04/08/ar...ies-at-57.html


When it comes to Joe Sgro, I don't even know what to ask, because I want to know everything.

[sjl]

I think they achieved so much things in so less time because the lack of distractions.

[Jerry Christopher Sr.]

Yup, you showed up one time a week, you got a lesson and you practiced. That's it.

[WVNicholson]

I recently looked into buying some of the books by James Tillman from the guitarmaster.net website (linked in a couple of the posts to this thread) that supposedly demonstrate Joe Sgro's picking technique although my motivation is primarily to get material for music reading practice. It looks like there are issues with the website and they may be out of business since guitarmaster.net do not respond to questions sent using their contact form (or to e-mail messages sent to [email protected], [email protected] or [email protected]). Anyway, I unwisely went ahead and purchased a set of books with PayPal as my payment method and when I finished paying and checking out my confirmation page from guitarmaster.net was a webpage with a 404 not found error. I do have a proper receipt from PayPal so I will be able to start the painful refund claim process some time within the next 20 days.

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread that a couple of people e-mailed the author James Tillman directly. So it may be helpful if they could provide me with his e-mail addresses (possibly via a PM on this site if they don't want to post it to the thread) since the contact method on the website doesn't seem to work,

William

Do you mean this? Guitar Master: or Advanced 3 octave methodI sent James Hillman an email and he responded, telling me he would be happy to chat about Joe's approach to picking. I emailed him a link to this thread and hope he participates in it. (I am unfamiliar with this material, though I'm going to get the "Beginning Scales" book in order to get a sense of what some of the fingerings are and what the picking directions are like.)

[Barry Thomas]

I think Tony Decaprio studied with him.

Yes Tony studied with Joe in fact he ended up buying Joe's 335.