Simply the greatest jazz guitarist of all time

Jazzarian · 06-28-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by PSUnderwood

I think George Benson is the best George Benson there is. And that John Scofield is the best John Scofield there is. And Wes Montgomery was...ahh, you get the idea.

Your analogy would have been good if it had not included Scofield. You might as well add Mark Tremonti if you're going to include him.

**PSUnderwood** · 06-28-2009, 03:42 PM

It wasn't an analogy, but OK: Mark Tremonti is the best Mark Tremonti there is. Angus Young is the best Angus Young there is. Slash is the best Slash there is. None of this says "X is the greatest guitarist there is" or "Y is the greatest <insert genre here> guitarist there is". My point is that each guitarist plays whatever he plays as well as he can play it (bit of an assumption there, perhaps), regardless of anyone else's taste. Shredders are great at playing dorian scales/minor pentatonics in sixteenths at 450 bpm, and they'll do it whether I like it or not, whether I consider it musical or not. By and large, calling anyone "the greatest <insert skill here>" is equivalent to saying "X is the <insert skill here> I like best", and that's something I can't argue with. It says nothing about technical mastery, expressiveness, or anything else but the emotional response of one individual to another. Some consider Segovia a great guitarist. He couldn't have been great, he couldn't cover Eddie Van Halen's 'Eruption'. Eddie Van Halen could never be great; he can't blow over Coltrane changes. Sure, Wes Montgomery could play jazz, but could he stand up to Joe Satriani? Jazz guys will answer one way, rock guys another. Comparing players within a genre is just the same, within a smaller pool. Django Reinhardt was no Ben Monder, or vice-versa.

Love the music you love. Share it with others. For what it's worth, I like a lot of what I've heard from a lot of different guitarists, and I like them for different reasons at different times. "Greatest" doesn't enter into it for me. Except for my own playing, where "greatness" is an ideal I'll never achieve.

Jazzarian · 06-28-2009, 04:11 PM

" Sure, Wes Montgomery could play jazz, but could he stand up to Joe Satriani?"

Wes Montgomery would have made him look like an idiot.

Sorry but tapping fools like Vai and Satriani aren't in the same league with jazz guitarists.

**Sordello** · 06-29-2009, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Miles once asked Freddie who his favorite trumpet player was. Freddie said Clifford Brown. Miles said "Clifford played too many notes. Freddie, you play too many notes".

What a shame Miles didn't tell George that HE played too many notes. We wouldn't have had to endure the travesty of that horrendous video of the opening post. Though I only watched half of it, at first thinking I could only waste 4 minutes of my life instead of eight, but I decided to shut it down at the point where I thought GB was going to flip the guitar over and start playing with his teeth.

Sorry jazzarian, but this "music" is closer to Jimi than Wes and it is NOT jazz but just six string masturbation. A great song like Take Five deserves better than a shabby ersatz Hendrix treatment like this.

Oh dear... I've done it now ...

**franco6719** · 06-29-2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sordello

What a shame Miles didn't tell George that HE played too many notes. We wouldn't have had to endure the travesty of that horrendous video of the opening post. Though I only watched half of it, at first thinking I could only waste 4 minutes of my life instead of eight, but I decided to shut it down at the point where I thought GB was going to flip the guitar over and start playing with his teeth.

Sorry jazzarian, but this "music" is closer to Jimi than Wes and it is NOT jazz but just six string masturbation. A great song like Take Five deserves better than a shabby ersatz Hendrix treatment like this.

Oh dear... I've done it now ...

Now, I DO hope you are just being tongue-in-cheek here. It is NOT jazz? Masturbation? Sounds more like Jimi Hendrix? Take your meds and call it a day, already. I don't agree with everything Jazzarian says, but.......

**reventlov** · 06-29-2009, 07:37 AM

"Sorry, don't think Johnny Smith quite had all of Benson's chops, as seen in the video."

When it comes to chops, Johnny Smith wrote the book - there are few who can match the speed and cleanliness of Smith's technique, and GB is not one of them.

Jazzarian · 06-29-2009, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Krish

or Scofield or whoever.. those people are trying to write jazz tunes in their OWN voice.

That is comical and worth revisiting. I guess one's own voice can be replaced with a Flanger.

**Sordello** · 06-30-2009, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by franco6719

Now, I DO hope you are just being tongue-in-cheek here. It is NOT jazz? Masturbation? Sounds more like Jimi Hendrix? Take your meds and call it a day, already. I don't agree with everything Jazzarian says, but.......

Well, yes, the tongue was firmly planted; after that video, I just had to engage in a little 'poking-of-the-bear'. I actually do like a lot of George Benson's work, although I prefer the early GB than the later.

Having said that though, I DID turn the video off after 4 minutes and I DID think it was an atrocious performance of a great jazz tune. Sorry all, but speed-of-light scale improvisations (aka "jazz shredding") just doesn't turn my crank.

**mangotango** · 06-30-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Good advice troll.

Imagine, on a jazz guitar board, clowns trashing Benson. I mean if it were "Give Me the Night" I could understand, but Take 5?

What a bunch of morons.

Well I watched the Take 5 video, all the way to the end, and I liked it.

But y'know, each to their own.

**princeplanet** · 06-30-2009, 12:16 PM

don't understand the Benson bashing relating to the video, "too many notes" - "too flashy" - "masturbation" - .... oh well, I suppose people said that about Tatum, Bird and Trane. Surely there's bad "flashy" and good "flashy"?

Benson just has to be seen as the latter. Sure he has "lines", but so does Herbie Hancock. Anyway, this is a Jazz forum, arguing who's the best whatever, that belongs on Metal forums with excitable (and impressionable) adolescents ....

Jazzarian · 06-30-2009, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

don't understand the Benson bashing relating to the video, "too many notes" - "too flashy" - "masturbation" - .... oh well, I suppose people said that about Tatum, Bird and Trane. Surely there's bad "flashy" and good "flashy"?

Benson just has to be seen as the latter. Sure he has "lines", but so does Herbie Hancock. Anyway, this is a Jazz forum, arguing who's the best whatever, that belongs on Metal forums with excitable (and impressionable) adolescents ....

When it comes to jazz greats, there isn't a "best". You'd think most would know that. Tatum "better" than Tyner?
Brownie better than Hubbard? (both would kick Miles' ass btw).

Of course, the concept of being a "great" is open for debate. I certainly wouldn't associate the term with John Scofield, but that's just me

Russell Malone, Pat Metheny, Jimmy Bruno, Paul Bollenback etc etc are just allowed to say George Benson is the best, presently (Wes being the all time fav). Most mortals can't say such a thing