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Hello, i've noticed watching video and reading stuff that Wes, George Benson and Charlie Christian play most of the time with only three finger with left hand. Also some 'New' players like Bobby Broom and Miles Okazaki play mostly with 3 fingers. I've tried this technique with some solos (charlie and wes) and in my opinion this drove you to explore more the lenght of the neck. What are your opinions? It's an old fashion thing? Personally I like it!
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09-05-2015 04:38 PM
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Interestingly, in Charlie's case, using only three figures did often inform his note choice i.e. if he had used four fingers his note choice would have been greater.
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Watch some Peter Bernstein videos. He uses three fingers primarily and does a lot of position changing. Jimmy Raney was also mostly a 3 finger player.
When I was first taking guitar lessons I was trained on using all four fingers and that using three fingers was the road to pentatonic blues-rock hell. Three fingers doesn't seem to hold back the folks mentioned above!
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traditional blues player's habit.
interesting comment about Charlie. i've not examined his fingerings and note choice that closely but did observe that he freely used chromatics, scales, 13th arpeggios, etc. i transcribed and played Breakfast Feud way back in 1975. when i worked on it I remember using my pinky. that doesn't mean he did, but...
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It was discussed a few times here...
as mentioned it's blues style, I guess originally from mamteur playing...
It's worth studying, at least form (classically trained) it seemded rediculous at first but later I felt how much it effected phrasing. Lots of slides and shifts... to me a bit heavier articulation, harder swinging...
But it changes wirst angle (more violine-like with fingers along the neck) and may hurt the wrist if you're used to other style.
By the way the other reason of shifting along the neck is diagonal approach as default.. I am sure players like Bernstein or Metheny can see and handle the neck thoroughly from any point but probably originally they began with 'diagonal' and it's still there in their playing
And I guess Benson, Bernstein use pinky occasionally but very often 'under the third finger on the next sting up' in playing arpeggios for exmple...
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I'm a strong believer that the way you get from one note to another strongly affects the sound you get, i.e.: articulation from slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs and position shifts, which somebody with a three finger approach will use much more often (which doesn't necessarily mean you can't do that with a four finger approach).
I've noticed that players using a classic four finger technique and mostly staying in one position often sound clinical and academic, at least to me.
Just my opinion.....
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I learned to use all four fingers early on but the three-fingered appraoche sure worked for many greats, and some great contemporary players too. I've spent some time on Duke Robillard's lessons at Sonic Junction and he gets a lot of good stuff out of a three-fingrered approach.
He uses all four fingers but I notice he phrases many lines with only three. I think part of this is that the ring finger is better for vibrato than the pinky is. Also, it seems that in order to use the pinky on the lower strings, the hand has to open more so than when one is using the index and ring finger for most notes (and shifts).
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Thanks for that clip Mark! You'll notice that Duke works with a lot of pull offs and for this technique the ring finger is just so much stronger than the pinky.
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Yes, he does. I've learned this tune of his ("Skippy's Dream") and the head is bone-simple but I use my pinky more than he does (on this) and it doesn't seem to help me any! (It's hard for me to NOT use my pinky where I'm used to using it, but when I do this three-fingered, it just seems to flow better.)
Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Stephane Grappelli was quoted as saying that Django's technique was so strong 'cause he used only the two strongest fingers on his left hand. Just because great players find a comfortable route that works with their ideas and anatomy doesn't mean that there's much value for others in imitating their approach and thinking they can play as their heroes did. It's not in the hand, it's not in the instrument, it's in the brain.
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Many gypsy players primarily use three fingers. E.g. Stochello Rosenberg would even play four consecutive chromatic notes on one string with three fingers at blazing speed. I guess using the three strong fingers helps articulation and phrasing in single note playing. Once one is used to frequent position changes one also does not need four fingers (again single note playing). The weak pinky can even be in the way :-)
Last edited by Frank67; 09-21-2015 at 03:31 PM. Reason: typo
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But if you're George Van Epps you invent the "5th finger" (using the side of the index finger to fret an additional note when all 4 fingers are otherwise occupied) because you find your self a wee bit short of the number of necessary digits.
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You know, I was thinking about this today and realized that for those guys who play out of chord shapes----Charlie Christian, Herb Ellis, many others---it might make sense to use the same finger you use to make the shape to fret this or that note in single line playing. That is, your point of orientation is not this or that position as generally understood (-the position is named for the fret location of one's index finger) but rather this or that chord shape..... (Just thinking out loud here....)
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Definitely Mark. A common example of that is when improvising out of "6-2" form (for example, a G major scale in 2nd position). Many players shift to the 3rd finger at the 5th fret/4th string to enable them to work out of a transposed "F" chord shape. (x-x-5-4-3-3) whereas the standard CAGED fingering indicates that shift to be made on the 2nd and 1st strings only. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Great point! Originally Posted by PMB
I noticed that (IIRC) in Herb Ellis's book "Blues Shapes". It's a arpeggio diagram and the dots (indicating where to put one's finger) have a number inside and that number is the finger one is to use. And there it is, the third finger for that G note (and the D note on the A string.)
I was messing around with this tonight and realized that when you fret that note with the third finger, the second is brought in close. (When you play it with the pinky, the third finger is not brought in in the same way.)
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Exactly. Try playing the intro to Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode" with the standard fingering and it's clearly unsuitable, especially considering the number of hammer-ons and slides. Of course, Chuck loved Charlie Christian's playing (check out CC's 1939 recording of "I Got Rhythm" to see where that intro was copped from):
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Ha! I spent a lot of time on those Chuck Berry licks as a kid. He seemed to have giant hands.
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@Mark, yup! I can relate.
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If it were only in the brain or I'd rather say -- in the mind... I think I had no problems at all... hands and instruments are what makes it real.It's not in the hand, it's not in the instrument, it's in the brain.
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You do have to sound the instrument and that requires the hands. I realize that the mind is involved, but the hands are too! (One notices this with age and ailments---if you're hurt, if compromises your playing even if your mind remains sharp.) Playing the guitar is an activity. Originally Posted by Jonah
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that's what I say!You do have to sound the instrument and that requires the hands. I realize that the mind is involved, but the hands are too! (One notices this with age and ailments---if you're hurt, if compromises your playing even if your mind remains sharp.) Playing the guitar is an activity.
And another point - doing is important because most of the discoveries and revelation come out when you do it.. it will bring you farther than you might expect in your plans...
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Give the man a cigar! Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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It's been a long time since I had one, but on this occasion, I would gladly take it! ;o) Originally Posted by monk
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Another aspect of this---duh!---is that if you play (mostly) with three fingers you slide into more notes than otherwise, and that gives lines a more vocal quality.
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