Wes Montgomery Live in '65 - The End of a Love Affair

[Greentone]

Say, I know that this has been pointed out before--a few years back--but can you guys dig the rehearsal of Billie Holliday's "The End of a Love Affair" on the Live in '65 You Tube footage? Wes is teaching the song to the trio that he is sitting in with. They pick it up. At 6:42 they tear it up...as if they play it all the time. Wes is full of ideas. This one is special.

[dogletnoir]

So cool... i love this!

[grahambop]

Yes this is from the Jazz Icons Wes Montgomery DVD. If you dig Wes and you haven't got it, get it.

I also like the way you get an informal insight into Wes' personality, how relaxed and friendly he is with the pickup group, what a cool guy he was!

[Patrick2]

I just love how lyrically his guitar *sung* the melody from 3:50 into the video. Sometimes I think he visited with Spock and got him to do a mind meld between Wes' mind and his L5. His melodic stating, such as this one, just seem to happen without thought or effort. I've just got to wonder how he'd have been playing in his 50s or 60s.

[grahambop]

Also there's a bit during this session, I can't remember if it's at the beginning or later on, where Wes just starts playing unaccompanied for a few bars, maybe on a blues.

Somehow the sound quality really captures the sheer depth and warmth of his guitar tone for a few moments, and I think you get a brief taste of how he REALLY sounded live. I don't think this is something I've ever heard captured fully on any of the recordings.

Of course I never heard him live, so I'm just guessing, but it always strikes me this way when I play this DVD.

[Greentone]

Yeah...Wes's tone, his sound quality, is unreal in this session. Wes/Gibson L5/Standel amp. Nothing more is needed.

[wintermoon]

it's interesting to note that for years the myth was that Wes "didn't know what chords he was playing, or any harmony, theory, etc." that he only knew 'sounds'

he may not have been able to sight read a chart, but he certainly knew enough about music, besides his fantastic ear to 'get by'

[Greentone]

Have many of you listened critically to the whole DVD? The European Trio that Wes was sitting in with is quite different from his quartet shown at a different point in the DVD. I still, overall, enjoy Wes teaching "The End of a Love Affair" to the European guys the most. Overall, though, Wes' guys just smoke the group he was sitting in with. This is no surprise. Wes was superimposing his repertoire onto an established trio in the first instance. In the second instance, he is playing his works with his guys. Well, duh.

Still, it's jarring how different things are. The European guys are clearly journeymen jazz guys--they know their craft. It also seems that they _don't_ know what playing with a guitarist is about. For the first couple of songs, a blues and Nica's Dream, there is frankly a lot of bashing. The drummer, at least for the first two tunes, seems locked into a Buddy Rich gig. I mean...WHAP! On Nica's Dream? Hmm? By the third song it's like the earplugs fell out of his ears. Suddenly, sensitivity abounds.

You can see Wes' personality in the first several charts. He isn't satisfied, but he figures, what the bleep, smiles, and soldiers on as he looks around.

I don't know about you, but I've definitely been on the stage with guys I've just met, been hit with a wave of "Here I am, it's me!" coming from three directions--at FULL volume, at once, and wondered, "when is the first set break?" Leader looks to me..."what have you got?" Me? I'm thinking, man, I don't want to add to this ... "put the fish in the sonic Bass-o-Matic blender." I signal, "I'm cool," and keep comping. I wait for a ballad...like a Wes without his tremendous chops.

[yebdox]

I have this DVD. The first time I watched it a few years back, I almost started bawling when I heard Wes speak. That might sound strange, but I have been so moved by his music from the age of 19 or 20 (I'm turning 60 next week) that to hear someone whose work you've admired more than half your life actually confirm through his tone and demeanor your suspicions of a gentle and wise soul was almost too much. You can really hear the man through his music.

I don't think I have ever been so grateful to a single human being I've never met. He is the ultimate in hip, gentility and swing. No one comes close, in my book. One in a million and totally worthy of emulation.

[targuit]

I find this clip curious. For one thing, I doubt the group members were entirely ignorant of the tune "End of a Love Affair". They pick it up rather brilliantly if that is the case. And the piano and bass player are both right on the money immediately. So I don't buy the notion that Wes is 'teaching them the song".

But his playing is great. What does strike me is how he uses just the index, middle, and ring finger on his fretting hand except for when he plays octaves. But then again along with his bionic right thumb that is part of his musical 'signature'.

[destinytot]

One in a million and totally worthy of emulation.

Beautiful and inspiring comment, and I agree with the last part - one could do a lot worse.

[grahambop]

I have this DVD. The first time I watched it a few years back, I almost started bawling when I heard Wes speak. That might sound strange, but I have been so moved by his music from the age of 19 or 20 (I'm turning 60 next week) that to hear someone whose work you've admired more than half your life actually confirm through his tone and demeanor your suspicions of a gentle and wise soul was almost too much. You can really hear the man through his music.

I don't think I have ever been so grateful to a single human being I've never met. He is the ultimate in hip, gentility and swing. No one comes close, in my book. One in a million and totally worthy of emulation.

Yes that was very much my reaction too. I never knew film like this even existed. It was like finding the holy grail.

[grahambop]

Have many of you listened critically to the whole DVD? The European Trio that Wes was sitting in with is quite different from his quartet shown at a different point in the DVD. I still, overall, enjoy Wes teaching "The End of a Love Affair" to the European guys the most. Overall, though, Wes' guys just smoke the group he was sitting in with. This is no surprise. Wes was superimposing his repertoire onto an established trio in the first instance. In the second instance, he is playing his works with his guys. Well, duh.

Still, it's jarring how different things are. The European guys are clearly journeymen jazz guys--they know their craft. It also seems that they _don't_ know what playing with a guitarist is about. For the first couple of songs, a blues and Nica's Dream, there is frankly a lot of bashing. The drummer, at least for the first two tunes, seems locked into a Buddy Rich gig. I mean...WHAP! On Nica's Dream? Hmm? By the third song it's like the earplugs fell out of his ears. Suddenly, sensitivity abounds.

You can see Wes' personality in the first several charts. He isn't satisfied, but he figures, what the bleep, smiles, and soldiers on as he looks around.

I don't know about you, but I've definitely been on the stage with guys I've just met, been hit with a wave of "Here I am, it's me!" coming from three directions--at FULL volume, at once, and wondered, "when is the first set break?" Leader looks to me..."what have you got?" Me? I'm thinking, man, I don't want to add to this ... "put the fish in the sonic Bass-o-Matic blender." I signal, "I'm cool," and keep comping. I wait for a ballad...like a Wes without his tremendous chops.

The drummer is Han Bennink, I think he later became more of an avant-garde type player.

[grahambop]

I find this clip curious. For one thing, I doubt the group members were entirely ignorant of the tune "End of a Love Affair". They pick it up rather brilliantly if that is the case. And the piano and bass player are both right on the money immediately. So I don't buy the notion that Wes is 'teaching them the song".

But his playing is great. What does strike me is how he uses just the index, middle, and ring finger on his fretting hand except for when he plays octaves. But then again along with his bionic right thumb that is part of his musical 'signature'.

I believe they were about the top jazz trio in Holland so I expect they had some inkling of the tune, and were used to backing visiting Americans, having to pick up tunes quickly etc.

That thing that Wes adds to the changes with little semitone sideslips is cool though!

[destinytot]

I find this clip curious. For one thing, I doubt the group members were entirely ignorant of the tune "End of a Love Affair". They pick it up rather brilliantly if that is the case. And the piano and bass player are both right on the money immediately. So I don't buy the notion that Wes is 'teaching them the song".

I respectfully disagree.

I agree that they pick up the harmony quickly. 'Brilliantly'? I'm not so sure. Isn't that the least to be expected of anyone in their circumstances? Surely they're only confirming that they can hear the changes.

@00:23, the pianist utters "I heard it before", "of course" and "we didn't play it"; I agree that the group members were not entirely ignorant of the tune - but that isn't inconsistent with the notion that Wes is teaching them the song.

The first three minutes consist of communication (in restricted code) intended to establish agreement on the harmony. It may be almost wordless, but clarification is implicit.

But when, @02:16, Wes utters "No" and "uh-uh", he is correcting an error at an important point in the harmony - at the threshold of its climax and resolution. He utters "No" and "uh-uh", before correcting the wrong chord. This constitutes teaching them the song.

I apologise if I'm wrong, but I can't help feeling that there's unfair bias behind this comment - not that it's any of my business. But it does concern me that elitist attitudes tend to undermine, erode, invalidate - even usurp - intangible cultural heritage.

When Wes stops playing @05:30 to explain the changes he wants to hear (in the endearing, down-to-earth and softly-spoken style that seems to have characterised him), it is a portentous moment: it foreshadows circulation of valuable information across continents - a legacy that is cultural and educational.

Anyway... thanks to this great clip, after the thirty seconds it takes for the pianist to 'get' it, we get to witness a delightful 'aha! moment' @06:00.

[dortmundjazzguitar]

Have many of you listened critically to the whole DVD? The European Trio that Wes was sitting in with is quite different from his quartet shown at a different point in the DVD. I still, overall, enjoy Wes teaching "The End of a Love Affair" to the European guys the most. Overall, though, Wes' guys just smoke the group he was sitting in with. This is no surprise. Wes was superimposing his repertoire onto an established trio in the first instance. In the second instance, he is playing his works with his guys. Well, duh.

Still, it's jarring how different things are. The European guys are clearly journeymen jazz guys--they know their craft. It also seems that they _don't_ know what playing with a guitarist is about. For the first couple of songs, a blues and Nica's Dream, there is frankly a lot of bashing. The drummer, at least for the first two tunes, seems locked into a Buddy Rich gig. I mean...WHAP! On Nica's Dream? Hmm? By the third song it's like the earplugs fell out of his ears. Suddenly, sensitivity abounds.

You can see Wes' personality in the first several charts. He isn't satisfied, but he figures, what the bleep, smiles, and soldiers on as he looks around.

I don't know about you, but I've definitely been on the stage with guys I've just met, been hit with a wave of "Here I am, it's me!" coming from three directions--at FULL volume, at once, and wondered, "when is the first set break?" Leader looks to me..."what have you got?" Me? I'm thinking, man, I don't want to add to this ... "put the fish in the sonic Bass-o-Matic blender." I signal, "I'm cool," and keep comping. I wait for a ballad...like a Wes without his tremendous chops.

the trio in question is the pim jacobs trio, with his brother ruud on bass. the original third member was guitarist wim overgaauw. the trio backed up pim's wife rita and visiting american musicians including cannonball, wes, astrudo gilberto, griffin, etc. there's the story of them trying to fit cannonball into a fiat 500... there was more tv material from wes' stint in holland including wes and wim trading fours but those tapes to not seem to have survived.

ruud jacobs was and is still a phenomenal bass player who supposedly turned down an offer from count basie around that time. bennik was still a puppy back then and not very experienced. pim and wim unfortunately passed away in the 90s.

[targuit]

"I apologise if I'm wrong, but I can't help feeling that there's unfair bias behind this comment - not that it's any of my business. But it does concern me that elitist attitudes tend to undermine, erode, invalidate - even usurp - intangible cultural heritage.

When Wes stops playing @05:30 to explain the changes he wants to hear (in the endearing, down-to-earth and softly-spoken style that seems to have characterised him), it is a portentous moment: it foreshadows circulation of valuable information across continents - a legacy that is cultural and educational." - Destinytot

Mike, are you referring to my comment that I doubted that this group of excellent musicians were entirely ignorant of End of a Love Affair which Wes was 'teaching them'? Unfair bias? Elitist attitude? I would suggest that if this is one of the top jazz groups in Holland or wherever, to consider that they would need Wes to school them on how to play this song is elitist in itself. It is quite different to suggest that Wes was illustrating how he interpreted the changes and melody.

There is often an undercurrent of elitist attitudes that border on juvenile hero worship of jazz musicians as icons glowing in some mysterious aura. It is a kind of submissive behavior like that of wolves in a pack signaling their submission to the alpha animal in the pack. These fine jazz musicians not only knew this tune but adapted to Wes' arrangement preferences quite professionally in a matter of a couple of minutes. It seems to me that they clearly know the tune, though perhaps it was not a part of their routine repertoire. But they certainly picked it up better than 95% of musicians would. That pianist and bassist are excellent musicians clearly quite at home in a jazz context. To suggest otherwise is "elitist" in my humble opinion.

[destinytot]

"I apologise if I'm wrong, but I can't help feeling that there's unfair bias behind this comment - not that it's any of my business. But it does concern me that elitist attitudes tend to undermine, erode, invalidate - even usurp - intangible cultural heritage.

When Wes stops playing @05:30 to explain the changes he wants to hear (in the endearing, down-to-earth and softly-spoken style that seems to have characterised him), it is a portentous moment: it foreshadows circulation of valuable information across continents - a legacy that is cultural and educational." - Destinytot

I stand by my words about intangible cultural heritage, but I apologise for speculating that educational elitism might be behind your comment. It now seems probable that you don't understand the concept Wes conveys @05:30.

And that's fine. In fact, neither did the pianist - until he tested out what Wes explained.

Whether the pianist and bassist are "excellent musicians clearly quite at home in a jazz context" is beside the point. I'm concerned with acknowledging Wes's role in the transaction shown in the clip.

Of course Wes is illustrating how he interprets the changes.

But your comment is unfair. It lionises the pianist and bassist (both excellent and at home here, agreed), whereas it not only trivialises the significance of the content Wes transfers, it diminishes Wes's status as the superior 'jazz' musician in this historic encounter.

And I think you reduce the transaction to its most mundane and prosaic level because Wes's wishes expressed @05:30 fail to spark your enthusiasm. But Wes isn't just saying which changes he'd like to hear, he's justifying them and explaining why they work.

Never mind "alpha male" and "schooling" (with their sinister connotations); Wes - a formidable innovator - is seen teaching a concept beyond the experience of his interlocutors when @05:58 he explains: "Yeah... it'll go right behind the major." Credit where it's due.

[wintermoon]

[targuit]

Mike - Frankly I had a hard time hearing the comments clearly in the video, so perhaps I missed the import of what Wes was suggesting. But perhaps I'm just less impressed. I did not hear anything revolutionary but rather just a preference in the arrangement.

I'm not denigrating Wes as a guitarist/musician, but rather pointing out that sometimes people make a mountain out of a molehill as we say here.

[destinytot]

Mike - Frankly I had a hard time hearing the comments clearly in the video, so perhaps I missed the import of what Wes was suggesting. But perhaps I'm just less impressed. I did not hear anything revolutionary but rather just a preference in the arrangement.

I'm not denigrating Wes as a guitarist/musician, but rather pointing out that sometimes people make a mountain out of a molehill as we say here.

Cool. And thanks for clearing that up, Jay.

[grahambop]

It strikes me how lucky we are to have this footage of Wes talking and rehearsing with the band. Most TV directors would cut this out immediately.

[grahambop]

It always annoys me how little jazz there is on TV. It would cost so little to have a weekly slot where they just let some guys play for 45 minutes and just film it. Or any other serious music, it could be a classical string quartet, or a blues group, folk music, anything. Instead we get rubbish which must cost a fortune to produce.

The only thing like this over here in recent years was the transatlantic folk sessions from a hotel in Scotland. That was great, with Jerry Douglas on dobro, Emmylou Harris, etc. Why they don't do more like this beats me.

[destinytot]

Throughout the '80s, there was an excellent weekly programme on Spanish TV called Jazz entre amigos presented by the late Juan Claudio Cifuentes ('Cifu'). There's some great archive footage that surfaces from time to time. Worth looking out for.

[destinytot]

Jazz entre amigos online - RTVE.es A la Carta