Jazz Guitarists that 'normal' people like?

**feral guitar** · 05-11-2015, 04:22 PM

none, zero, ziltch

**Stevebol** · 05-11-2015, 04:51 PM

nada, don't waste your time

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-11-2015, 04:55 PM

I think the Barney Kessel combover is a big hit with the ladies...

Seriously, I would say Wes and George Benson. And Earl Klugh.

Put on the Breezin' album by George. Ain't nobody don't like that album.

**Jehu** · 05-11-2015, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by eccegeorge

But definitely Wes. I mean everybody loves Wes, right? Everybody.

My wife, who is not a jazzer despite my force-feeding, doesn't like Wes. She thinks it sounds like elevator music. (Especially when he gets into his really octave-heavy, smooth Latin stuff.)

But she really likes Grant Green.

**grahambop** · 05-11-2015, 05:00 PM

Bear in mind, nobody here is 'normal'.

**MarkRhodes** · 05-11-2015, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Bear in mind, nobody here is 'normal'.

True. I interpreted 'normal' to mean non-guitarists (or non-guitar junkies.)
Wes and Charlie and George have many fans who don't play guitar or even care especially about the guitar: they just like that music.

**Jazzpunk** · 05-11-2015, 05:44 PM

Grant Green, Kenny Burrell and Wes are always safe bets. I'll throw on the modern cats like Christian Scott, Nir Felder and Rosenwinkel for my friends who are into bands like Radiohead etc.

**mikeSF** · 05-11-2015, 08:19 PM

GB

**Aora Blue** · 05-12-2015, 05:42 PM

I know some people who like Wes Mongomery

**snoskier63** · 05-13-2015, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Grant Green, Kenny Burrell and Wes are always safe bets. I'll throw on the modern cats like Christian Scott, Nir Felder and Rosenwinkel for my friends who are into bands like Radiohead etc.

I've listened to Rosenwinkle based on reading about him out here. While there is a lot of jazz I like, I just can't get into Rosenwinkle. To each there own I guess.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 05-13-2015, 06:39 AM

Caught my 14-yr-old daughter listening to Django on her phone the other day. Kind of shocked.

**kris** · 05-13-2015, 06:55 AM

I wonder if any "normal" like jazz...:-)?

**Stevebol** · 05-13-2015, 04:24 PM

All that matters these days is what the world thinks of your music video.

**Jazzpunk** · 05-13-2015, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

All that matters these days is what the world thinks of your music video.

Those damn kids and their music videos! Thinking that some hip shaking makes up for a doctorate in jazz studies and the ability to reharm any song into oblivion.

**Stevebol** · 05-13-2015, 05:00 PM

^^^
If you can't dance, green-screen.

**christianm77** · 05-14-2015, 06:17 PM

Django's probably the most famous jazz guitarist of all time.

My wife loves Bill Frisell.

I would invite anyone to a Jim Mullen gig.

This is the kind of quality I would like to cultivate in my own music - not to pander to an audience but to create music that communicates.

I do think that the modern music scene has tended towards atomisation in the audience. Instrumental music is such a niche market it threatens to be primarily about guitarists listening to guitar players, drummers listening to drummers. A lot of the current contemporary jazz guitar stars have kind of been painted into that corner - even a lot of jazz musicians (non guitar) I work with have no idea who Lage Lund is.

I have always been inspired by artists that communicate to a wide public without feeling they have to pander to them... It's a good trick! :-)

**christianm77** · 05-14-2015, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by 3625

Why do you guys think players like Wes and Django have a greater mass appeal?

I think we call it swinging.

It's really hard to learn how to swing now. It's been consuming obsession for years but I still struggle, because you can't learn that stuff from a book, or a jazz course....

I would say it is now much easier to learn how to play 'straight 8's' tunes in 7 then it is to learn how to play a '4/4' swing feel with all the rhythmic richness of a master jazz musician.

(Of course, that's not to say 7 is inherently intellectual - can you play 7 with all the rhythmic richness of a master Balkan musician? Anyway I happen to like 7, that's not the point :-))

Seems like many jazz guitar players basically give up and work on complexity instead, which puts them into the glasshouse of the 'jazz guitar community'.

**3625** · 05-14-2015, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I think we call it swinging.

It's really hard to learn how to swing now. It's been consuming obsession for years but I still struggle, because you can't learn that stuff from a book, or a jazz course....

I would say it is now much easier to learn how to play 'straight 8's' tunes in 7 then it is to learn how to play a '4/4' swing feel with all the rhythmic richness of a master jazz musician.

(Of course, that's not to say 7 is inherently intellectual - can you play 7 with all the rhythmic richness of a master Balkan musician? Anyway I happen to like 7, that's not the point :-))

Seems like many jazz guitar players basically give up and work on complexity instead, which puts them into the glasshouse of the 'jazz guitar community'.

By swinging, I think of it as 'feeling good', as opposed to a cerebral journey I'm getting from a lot of the new guys. I was checking out some Wes the other day, and it felt good. Like Monk feels good. Dexter feels good. Charlie Christian feels good.

Got nothing against complexity, after all I play bop - but modern jazzers these days to me, particularly guitarists, no longer have their chakras connected to their bollocks like in the days of yore.

**fumblefingers** · 05-14-2015, 11:20 PM

well, many of them are not trying to swing. they've moved on to something else.

**christianm77** · 05-15-2015, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

well, many of them are not trying to swing. they've moved on to something else.

I think this is not actually a choice and this response (which you often hear) is actually a bit defensive. To my ears, the great majority of jazz guitar players in my scene cannot swing in the sense that Charlie Christian or Grant Green did - even the straight-ahead guys. And, of course, I would certainly count myself in this.

It's not our fault. We are educationally disadvantaged, in a sense ;-) Also, the talent pool for jazz musicians was somewhat wider back then....

There are also other ways to swing so to speak, and jazz has latched onto these - Brazilian and Cuban music of course, also West African, North African, Balkan and many other types of world music has fused with jazz over the past few years.

This might seem harsh or even offensive, but that's not the intention. Actually I agree with what a lot of people say here when they say music has changed. Of course! And I don't believe that just because you don't play guitar exactly like Wes you can't address a wide audience.

**christianm77** · 05-15-2015, 07:14 AM

BTW - if anyone can share video of some current players who can swing like Grant Green or Wes, PLEASE share!

**grahambop** · 05-15-2015, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I think this is not actually a choice and this response (which you often hear) is actually a bit defensive. To my ears, the majority of jazz guitar players in my scene cannot swing in the sense that Charlie Christian or Grant Green did. Almost no-one can play this way, even the straight-ahead guys. I would certainly count myself in this.

I just want to get a good sound like Kenny Burrell, swing my ass off like Johnny Griffin or Dexter Gordon, and play great melodic lines like Wes or Chet Baker or Jimmy Raney.

Quite happy to just go on working on those (impossible) things for the rest of my life! Not sure I'll ever get round to playing Rosenwinkel tunes in 7/8 or whatever. Not that I don't appreciate that stuff, just that it's not my priority.

I know what you mean about swing. I was lucky to see most of the big American jazz 'names' from about 1980 to 2000, either at Ronnie Scotts or the Bass Clef/Tenor Clef. We used to go up there nearly every week sometimes.

The thing that struck me about all of them was (a) they all had a truly wonderful, big, warm sound on their instrument, I mean everybody, whether horns, guitar, bass, drums, piano, whatever; (b) they all had that amazing swing and groove that just makes the whole room feel good.

**grahambop** · 05-15-2015, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

BTW - if anyone can share video of some current players who can swing like Grant Green or Wes, PLEASE share!

I think Jim Mullen captures at least some of that, maybe because of his bluesy approach and use of the thumb.

**christianm77** · 05-15-2015, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I think Jim Mullen captures at least some of that, maybe because of his bluesy approach and use of the thumb.

I do like me a bit of Mullen. He's a real street player...

**christianm77** · 05-15-2015, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Quite happy to just go on working on those (impossible) things for the rest of my life! Not sure I'll ever get round to playing Rosenwinkel tunes in 7/8 or whatever. Not that I don't appreciate that stuff, just that it's not my priority.

It is funny that (like you) I've come to realise that playing a 4/4 medium blues is the most difficult thing you can do...