Grant Green - So What

**Sailor** · 01-20-2014, 10:48 PM

Before I try to transcribe a lot of this...

1. Miles is Dm and GG is Cm
2. The so what head is played on different scale degrees....Miles on the fifth and GG on the root??
3. Miles solo is mainly Dorian and GG is mainly MM???

I hope I'm right as here I go

Tx, Sailor

**mr. beaumont** · 01-20-2014, 10:53 PM

GG...Grant Green?

I think they just played the tune in different keys...So What is Dorian, then Dorian up a half step...wherever you start.

**Sailor** · 01-20-2014, 11:04 PM

grant green Mr B. He plays the head in Cminor with a c lick....miles plays the head in dminor but starts on the fifth of the scale....i think??? Sounds like that but I dont have my guitar w me

tx, Sailor

**mr. beaumont** · 01-20-2014, 11:07 PM

What lick are you talking about? The bass riff?

It's the classic Dorian tune...don't over think it...If Miles is in Dm and GG is in Cm they're just in different keys...it makes no difference what scale degree they start a solo on.

**Little Jay** · 01-21-2014, 03:06 AM

Actually, Sailor has a point, Grant's take is a variation. Under Grant's theme you can play |Cm7 |F7 |
(He plays an F7/13 with the 7 in the bass) and his theme is up a quarter higher than the original (and transposed to Cm of course).

Takes away that typical So What Dorian feeling a bit, but C dorian would work.

**m78w** · 01-21-2014, 04:46 AM

Yeah, one of the big reasons I love Grant's version of this tune is he uses tons of Melodic Minor in it, compared to Miles and Dorian. Great lesson on creating tension over a static m7 chord using the major 7 interval. Great choice for a transcription, lots to learn from this one!

**Little Jay** · 01-21-2014, 05:08 AM

It's a great tune to create tension with all minor scales I think!

Btw, I think it a very difficult tune to do right. Also at jam sessions I notice often that at some point everybody is lost in the AABA-form.....

**TOMMO** · 01-21-2014, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Btw, I think it a very difficult tune to do right. Also at jam sessions I notice often that at some point everybody is lost in the AABA-form.....

Mostly because they are no "real" changes there for orientation, I think....

**mr. beaumont** · 01-21-2014, 08:43 AM

I stand corrected.. should have listened to grant again before commenting...

**jalapeno** · 01-21-2014, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by TOMMO

Mostly because they are no "real" changes there for orientation, I think....

Well there's the up a half step bit - but it does rely on drums and bass counting the 32 bars (and everyone else for that matter). All Blues has a similar gotcha - it's 16 bars, not 12. If players aren't listening/counting they assume 12 bars and there's chaos.

**Sailor** · 01-21-2014, 12:04 PM

also...the head is played in different scale degrees relative to the key. Miles starts on SOL....GG starts on DO....i believe....tx for all responses, Sailor

**TOMMO** · 01-21-2014, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by jalapeno

Well there's the up a half step bit - but it does rely on drums and bass counting the 32 bars (and everyone else for that matter). All Blues has a similar gotcha - it's 16 bars, not 12. If players aren't listening/counting they assume 12 bars and there's chaos.

Yes - I think it throws some people off who are not used to it because there's no turnaround and you have 24 bars of the A part in a row - similar when you are not familiar with a straight ahead basic 12 bar blues: 6 bars of the tonic and you have to feel (or count) where one chorus ends and the next one begins....

**smokinguit** · 01-21-2014, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sailor

also...the head is played in different scale degrees relative to the key. Miles starts on SOL....GG starts on DO....i believe....tx for all responses, Sailor

Actually, Grant starts on sol (G of Cm @ 3rd fret 6th string)

**Sailor** · 01-21-2014, 08:54 PM

"Actually, Grant starts on sol (G of Cm @ 3rd fret 6th string)"

Yes SMOKINGIUT !!! That's all I was trying to say. regardless of key, (miles Dm, GG Cm), the head is different!!

Grant starts the head with Sol-Do....in C minor. Miles starts Do-Sol in D minor. Totally different scale degrees but i guess most people don't hear it because identical rhythm.

I thought i was going crazy

tx guys, Sailor

**Little Jay** · 01-22-2014, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Sailor

"Actually, Grant starts on sol (G of Cm @ 3rd fret 6th string)"

Yes SMOKINGIUT !!! That's all I was trying to say. regardless of key, (miles Dm, GG Cm), the head is different!!

Grant starts the head with Sol-Do....in C minor. Miles starts Do-Sol in D minor. Totally different scale degrees but i guess most people don't hear it because identical rhythm.

I thought i was going crazy

tx guys, Sailor

I tried to say that too, but I guess my English is too poor to properly express myself (not a native speaker).... :-(

**smokinguit** · 01-22-2014, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Sailor

"Actually, Grant starts on sol (G of Cm @ 3rd fret 6th string)"

Yes SMOKINGIUT !!! That's all I was trying to say. regardless of key, (miles Dm, GG Cm), the head is different!!

Grant starts the head with Sol-Do....in C minor. Miles starts Do-Sol in D minor. Totally different scale degrees but i guess most people don't hear it because identical rhythm.

I thought i was going crazy

tx guys, Sailor

The head is rhythmically very similar with slight variations, and yes the notes are played differently with respect to the key. Using solfeggio for the first phrase, they are:

Miles: Do-Sol-La-Te-Re-Te-Do (D minor)
Grant: Sol-Do-Re-Me-Fa-Sol-Me-Fa-Do (C minor)

**Sailor** · 01-22-2014, 02:36 PM

yes...yes....tx again guys.

Think I like Grant better than Miles!!

Sailor

**GuyBoden** · 01-22-2014, 02:51 PM

Yes, Melodic minor sounds cool, this modal tune can sound boring quickly if you stay in one scale, why not pick'n'mix, with Dorian, Nat Minor, Harm minor and Melodic minor. Even play outside and then back in again. Tension and release.

**Little Jay** · 01-23-2014, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by GuyBoden

Yes, Melodic minor sounds cool, this modal tune can sound boring quickly if you stay in one scale, why not pick'n'mix, with Dorian, Nat Minor, Harm minor and Melodic minor. Even play outside and then back in again. Tension and release.

It's a nice tune to test your rhythm-section: play a lick, then go 'outside' by playing the same lick half a strep up and see if they think you already started the B-part

**jckoto3** · 01-23-2014, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

It's a nice tune to test your rhythm-section: play a lick, then go 'outside' by playing the same lick half a strep up and see if they think you already started the B-part

That's funny

I end up getting myself lost though and end up having to go "outside" for the rest of the tune.

**GuyBoden** · 01-25-2014, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by GuyBoden

Yes, Melodic minor sounds cool, this modal tune can sound boring quickly if you stay in one scale, why not pick'n'mix, with Dorian, Nat Minor, Harm minor and Melodic minor. Even play outside and then back in again. Tension and release.

To hear what I'm trying to say, here's an extremely good example of playing "So What" on guitar by Randy Johnston.