John McLaughlin - good and fast?

**kris** · 11-29-2013, 03:34 AM

Anyway I like very much Joey DeFrancesco and master Elvin Jones...:-)

**jckoto3** · 11-29-2013, 03:43 AM

To answer the question posed in the thread title: both.

**JensL** · 11-29-2013, 06:19 AM

People can be good but their playing might not be your taste...

There's no denying he can play. His sound on this is pretty horrible IMO

Jens

**kris** · 11-29-2013, 07:00 AM

John can play really fast I know him from 70's -The Mahavishnu Orchestra.
It was great popular band... but here on video he is playing his fast staff also.I think it is his "jazz" language.
That is OK.

**disco~juice** · 11-29-2013, 08:18 AM

I love Jon McL.
Everything about him, his language, his tone.
It's funny how people's taste are totally different.

I saw him 3 days ago in Athens playing with Shakti.
I have to say that he (and the other members also) is one of the best musicians-guitarists.
His rhythm is just unbeatable!!

**nado64** · 11-29-2013, 09:11 AM

On "In a silent way", he played very slowly, sharing the harmony with joe zawinful.
I imagined the dawn of a springtime day. Very tasteful.

I remember to not be able to listen one of his last albums. too fast, and very unsightly at my taste.
I guess some people said the same thing about the bebop, in the 40's.

**marcwhy** · 11-29-2013, 10:04 AM

It seems when a horn player is fast, we say, "Cool!" and when a guitarist is fast, we critique him/her ...

The photography bothered me more than anything -- switching angles every second!

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-29-2013, 11:32 AM

For what's it is worth, I've followed him from Mahavishnu days and I've liked most of his records. My favourites -- the ones I go back to and play the most -- are the Shakti discs.

**NSJ** · 11-29-2013, 01:57 PM

Love Shakti love Maha, love his work with Miles. Ambivalent with his later day solo fusion records .

A guitarist I knew once walked out of his show because he felt he was just running scales really fast.

He can do that at times .

**disco~juice** · 11-29-2013, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Love Shakti love Maha, love his work with Miles. Ambivalent with his later day solo fusion records .

A guitarist I knew once walked out of his show because he felt he was just running scales really fast.

He can do that at times .

I think he plays more rhythm than music, if that makes sense. Indian music has a huge influence on him.

**Guitarzen** · 11-29-2013, 02:24 PM

Interesting, I was just listening to his recording with Defrancesco & Jones "After The Rain" and at least the random 1 track I picked, Joey was playing exactly the same speed as John Mclaughlin. Not only that, but melodically Joey's lines were extremely similar to John's. So it's interesting that you don't ask "Joey Defrancesco, fast or good? (I loved Mclaughlin and Jones!)". I get this sense that there is a lot of hate from jazz guitarists towards John because of his speed, and yet those same guitarists won't criticize Coltrane, or Defrancesco for their speed, and they play every bit as fast as John. Very interesting indeed. Could it just be that as guitarists we are 2x more critical of famous guitar players? Anyways, my 2cents: he is both good and fast. Not only that, but he has played a very important role in jazz guitar history, and you cannot say the same of every jazz guitarist.

**tribalfusion** · 11-29-2013, 02:28 PM

A true giant who deserves every bit of his acclaim. Yes his chops are also monstrous and that's a good thing.

**disco~juice** · 11-29-2013, 02:37 PM

You don'f often see jazz guitarists handling the speed and rhythm required in indian music...

**Jzzr** · 11-30-2013, 07:45 PM

He's fast, and good as well. But for guitarists from around that time, I think that there are many who are far greater.

**mr. beaumont** · 11-30-2013, 07:51 PM

John's made a lot of music that ain't my bag...but he's also on two sessions that changed jazz forever, and his playing on those is wonderful...i have nothing but respect for him.

**Drumbler** · 12-01-2013, 08:00 AM

McLaughlin's virtuosity sometimes becomes a thing in itself.

It starts to drive the music as opposed to being a tool used in the expression of the music.

A carpenter can use his hammer and saw to make beautiful constructions, or he can use it to show us how fast he can hammer nails and saw lumber, which in guitar has come to be known as shredding.

**kris** · 12-01-2013, 02:31 PM

JM is a great guitarist...
I love his playing in the movie about Dexter Gordon.The guitar track was exelent- not too many notes with great feel.
I did not know that was recorded by JM.
It was very good and swinging...:-)
Thanks
kris
ps.
I can say that I played with my trio before John Mc Shakti concert in Warsaw in 2003 or 2004.
I think he feel very comfortable in this staff.It was exelent show.

**fritz jones** · 12-01-2013, 04:21 PM

I like this album

**Stevebol** · 12-01-2013, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by tribalfusion

Jeff Beck wannabee? How clueless can you get...

He hasn't done anything worthwhile since Mahavishnu but he is fast as hell;

I love some of the comments, "Who said JM can't swing!?"

**Jzzr** · 12-01-2013, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

The most important jazz guitarist since Montgomery. On the other hand, some say that goes to Metheny. They both figure prominently in the history books already.

So, other than Benson - who doesn't play as much as either of the above - who are these mystery "many" that are "far" greater? I don't know of any who is half as good, although I never stop searching.

It seems to be interestingly consistent - many people who criticize JM seem to own 0-1 of his recordings, even though he has recorded for about 45 years! All they can do is dredge up is some youtube video that JM himself would not market. A lot of nights on the band stand can be exploratory.

Okay........just for starters. Here's a player who has all the chops in the world (like many players nowadays), and on top of that.....well just take a listen. If you are truly honest with yourself......But then again I think you are mostly answering on the basis of personal taste rather than honest assessment. Plus, I think you just like to argue

.

**cosmic gumbo** · 12-01-2013, 09:19 PM

I have great respect for JM's place in jazz history, guitar history, and his personal voice as an artist. He is an important influence for many musicians and while he's not a favorite of mine, I would feel very deprived without his contributions on In A Silent Way, Bitches Brew, and A Tribute to Jack Johnson. He's fast, clean, and good at what he does. He was never lost in the past like a Wes wannabe.

**Jzzr** · 12-01-2013, 10:31 PM

The definition of greatness is not confined to technique or innovation, although that is obviously from my own subjective viewpoint. Yes I would have mentioned Benson or Martino or Scofield or Mr. Fumblefingers himself, Jim Hall as greater artists from that generation.....based on the artistry and beauty of their works.

**srlank** · 12-01-2013, 11:09 PM

I would think so, at least in terms of improvisation, where the end product is an in-time composition. Technique would be only one aspect of the necessary requirements. And then when you look at technique......there is such a wide palette to draw from......slurring, chords, rhythm, legato, funkiness, compositional skills, etc. etc.

**disco~juice** · 12-02-2013, 04:17 AM

Kris, it is more about taste, not if he is good in standards or not.

I think that JM is great. But this is just my humble opinion. I also think that every jazzman has (and should have) respect for him.

Now, I think that we all can discuss if we LIKE him or not.
That's something we can all have opinion on. Not if he is good!

Both Elvin and Joey think he's good, also Jaco, Tony Williams, Chick Corea, Trilok Gurtu, Zakir Hussain...
The list can get very long..

**fumblefingers** · 12-02-2013, 07:55 AM

Good point.

Chick Corea referred to him as "number one on the guitar" when he was accepting his Grammy a few years ago. Maybe some folks should go argue with Chick.