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And see, that's something no one can argue with. I don't like his stuff, but at the same time, I get a kick out of listening to early Merle Travis and Chet Atkins.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Would I describe either of them as one of the "greats?" No, not outside the narrow context of what they were doing. Neither had the skills and knowledge to be considered true masters of the instrument -- and they were both quite honest about that. They were great fingerpickers, but not players that would qualify for inclusion in a short list of "top" guitar players by any objective criteria.
And that's okay.Last edited by cjm; 11-28-2011 at 04:40 PM.
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11-28-2011 04:36 PM
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beyond the list...ok its rolling stone...used to be a "rock magazine" .. now a liberal political rag that has a "music section" with people who write about what other people told them about..
a greatest list...in any field is silly..fits in with 10 yr old boys picking their favorite baseball player..
there are people of all skills who may well be the "greatest" in their field..but remain unknown to the media/public..
the rare few who make it in the lime light are judged and picked apart by criteria and standards that cant be adhered to...even superman has critics..
to the players here...60's rock music is not easy to listen to..and its not supposed to be..it was backround music for the revolution that never arrived..
a question asked of clapton.."what is it like being the best guitarist in the world?" he said..."when i see jeff beck ill ask him.."
the movie "monterey pop"...the first "rock festeval"..hendrix played "wild thing"..a very basic rock song..he was cool...liquid...he didn't play the guitar...he was the guitar..took the solo..played it behind his back..against the bass and drums of wild thing..and played..a very familiar melody and made it fit with out forcing it one bit..."strangers in the night"
he was a star that burned way too bright way too soon
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Agreed...It really doesn't even make sense... Originally Posted by exarctly
Plus, I've never heard Johnson (who I do respect highly as a player) play with the wild abandon that made Hendrix so exciting...there's a lot to be said for attitude.
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the backwards guitar solo in that tune...... Originally Posted by eddy b.
oh my...... can't be described.
mr beaumont, I can remember the exact place I first heard jimi, 1967, record shop, pa system, london england, and it was astounding.Last edited by markf; 11-28-2011 at 06:07 PM. Reason: edit
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By "master" of an instrument are you talking about jazz guitar or guitar? Hendrix had total mastery of his guitar in the style that he created singlehanded. Guess the 60s weren't fun for everyone.
What I think is interesting is that EVERY single jazz musician that came into direct contact with Hendrix says the same thing. I talked to Larry Coryell (who I'm not even that into) and he told me Jimi had perfect pitch and could hear everything that he (Larry) was doing. Sounds like mastery to me.
Were they jamming on "Giant Steps"? Obviously not. But Trane wouldnt even have been able to shred that tune if he hadnt been working on it for weeks/months...even Flanagan folds. Is Hendrix jazz? Who cares? To deny his greatness is as foolish as saying Miles was overrated as a jazz player.Last edited by mattymel; 11-28-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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this reminds me of football, my quarterback is a better quarterback than yours
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Obviously guitar as opposed to jazz guitar because that's the inspiration for this thread: The claim of greatest guitarist by Rolling Stone. Originally Posted by mattymel
That's one of the reasons I mentioned Merle Travis and Chet Atkins. Obviously not jazz guitarists.
Malmsteen kicks all their asses. Greatest. Guitar. Player. Of. All. Time.To deny his greatness is as foolish as saying Miles was overrated as a jazz player.
Bar none.
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http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/i...16049_ym5.jpeg Originally Posted by cjm
and Elvis has left the Weight loss center
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Right. Atkins and Travis, even Malmsteen...all masters in what they set out to play.
Saying Jimi hasn't mastered his instrument is equivalent to a metal dude saying he doesn't like Wes Montgomery because he can't shred!
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Pa-lease. Rock = "shred". Jazz = "shed" Originally Posted by mattymel
Its just one letter lost, but it makes a world of difference
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I was at my parents' house for dinner a few nights ago and my mom made potato pie...y`all ever had potato pie? I guess it was a recipe she invented, with this crust and everything, really good stuff.
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I'm one of those who believes that art and love are not to be measured in contests. As has always been said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and so is the "best" guitarist. Granted, you can measure technical ability, but how do you measure feeling and influence? George Harrison wasn't the most proficient technical guitarist, but he probably influenced more people to play a guitar than anyone else.
Last edited by woyvel; 11-28-2011 at 09:35 PM.
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I suck at spelling... Originally Posted by NSJ
Pa-lease. Rock = "shred". Jazz = "shed"
Its just one letter lost, but it makes a world of difference
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If I were rich, I would commission an enormous bronze sculpture and give it to the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming.
The sculpture would feature Malmsteen as the only standing figure. Kneeling to his left would be Clapton, and to his right, Hendrix and either Dimebag Darrel, or maybe Ace Frehley. Each of them would be staring with rapt attention at Malmsteen with their hands clasped as in prayer while Malmsteen himself uses a Stratocaster as a giant spoon to dip either curry, or perhaps fried okra, from a large washtub at his feet.
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yeah...rock guys never "shed"...
jazz IS after all the only music that takes skill to play. right?
then again, is technical difficulty a prerequisite for something being good music OR just coincidently what makes most hard to play music sound bad? and what the hell is a jazz nerd doing at Monterey pop anyway? get lost on your way to starbucks to buy your new norah jones cd? or did he go to MPF to admire the virtuosity of the Mamas and the Papas? these are the questions that make this argument one of the priceless moments in online forumdum.
this is a big part of why the majority of people (and not just rolling stone readers) think of jazzers as smelly goatee slicked back ponytail white dudes with a beret that play boring music that nobody wants to hear.
nobody likes an elitist. especially when it comes to music. especially when they dress badly.
so so far we have Miles, Branford, McLaughlin, Coryell, Dave Holland, Metheny,
Gil Evans, and about every other person that is known for playing music in the world saying basically the same thing...
but I'm still listening. my favorite pizza is the kind thats made of dough, sauce and cheese with other stuff on it, cooked in an oven...Last edited by mattymel; 11-28-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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Hendrix was one bad mofo!
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Originally Posted by cjm
what about the gravy? we don't want to deny him the gravy!
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
i have no doubt whatsoever.
I think that Miles was probably grateful for John too. i'm not sure that Jimi could have given Miles what he was looking for over all of those albums. how many was it again? about 13? I can't remember.
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...i think that if Jimi had played on those albums we'd all be playing Marshall stacks instead of polytones. shame...
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John McLaughlin Reminisces "He was just a guitar player. That's all he ever wanted to be." (Reprinted from Guitar Player magazine: September 1975)
"I first met Jimi in New York, through Mitch Mitchell, who had been with Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames. I used to play with Georgie years and years ago, but at that time I was with Tony Williams' Lifetime. Mitch was just really nutty about Lifetime. He came over and said, "You better come down to the Record Plant because we're recording tonight; just come on down."
When I got there, Mitch wasn't actually there at all. There was a guy called Buddy Miles playing drums. I didn't know Buddy at the time; I just saw this guy who was playing some boogaloo. So I played, and then Jimi came and joined in. Dave Holland [Miles Davis' bassist] was there, and we played all night -- it was really nice. Jimi used Marshall amps and would vary between a white custom Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Stratocaster. I was using a flat-top Gibson with a pickup on it. We worked some chords out but nothing complicated. We were just jamming.
How familiar he was with me, I have no idea. Because Mitch was really crazy about what Lifetime was doing, I imagine that Jimi was aware of us. Generally, Jimi was just a blues guitarist. I was into a completely different thing than he, though there was no conflict between our styles whatsoever. It's not styles that clash; it's people that clash. You can get the most completely opposite styles, but if people have harmony, it doesn't matter because it's all music. You can get Stravinsky to play with Miles Davis, because if they're harmonious, they're going to find something that's above them both. It's not like, "Don't play too heavy, man."
I just saw Jimi about two or three times after that jam at the Record Plant, but we didn't play together then. Every time we met we were in a rehearsal studio, and it just happened; I have no secret disclosures. Listen, they tell me they found tapes of Jimi and me. There's a whole hoo-ha about it, and it's such a lot of bull. When I asked them to send something I'd want to hear, they sent me something which had two or three minutes on it -- that's all. But if there *is* something, enough to make an album or two or whatever, then I want to hear it. And if it's good, I want it out; I want people to share it. But if it's not good, it's a ripoff. Jimi's been ripped off artistically since he died, just for the sake of money, and that's a ripoff of the people as well. So I won't put anything out until I feel there's something good, because I feel responsible for his and my own policy, no matter who says what. I know what's good, and I'm not going to do it for money. I'm going to do it because the *music* is happening; that's all. But believe me, if it's good, it's going to be out there.
Jimi was a beautiful guitar player. He wasn't very schooled; he had a limited knowledge as far as musical harmony is concerned. But he had such an imagination that he made up for it. And that's what makes things happen, because if you get a guy with all knowledge and no imagination, he doesn't play anything. Knowledge helps, but I'm not saying knowledge is it.
I don't know what all this talk is, like Jimi's some kind of god. He's just an ordinary guy. I mean, he's just like a nice, loving, sweet person -- that's all. He's just like one of your friends, you know? He wasn't pretentious or anything. He was just a guitar player; that's all he was. That's all he ever wanted to be. I mean, he got spaced, you know, but we all were spaced in our own way. But he was still into the blues.
My impression of Jimi was of strength really. He was strong, and that meant something. To me he was soulful. There must have been a better word for it. What I mean is that he was dynamic. He could do things with the guitar that nobody had done before. In other words, he was a revolutionary, but he still had a lot of soul, and that's what makes things work. If you don't have that, you can't make anything work. I think Jimi has had an effect on most contemporary guitar players. My influence on him is for him to say. I have no idea.
There has been this mystic status given to him, but I don't think he ever wanted it. All he ever wanted to do was just play. But he had this *thing* around him. I feel that he had it projected on him by the people who surrounded him. I feel he was murdered, frankly. Somebody gave him something. Somebody gave him something that they shouldn't have. I don't think it was intentional or premeditated. Well, I don't know, maybe it was, but I doubt it. Even so, it was like someone's going to incur some bad karma.
I don't know what happened to all his equipment and stuff after he died.The vultures probably came in and pecked him dry, pecked his bones clean. There's been a lot of bad stuff around his name, not the least of it being people who have been releasing his music. You see, he wouldn't like it without his having quality control, though Alan Douglas' is one of the best that's been out since Jimi died.
All in all, Jimi was a really sweet person and a beautiful guitar player."Last edited by Jazzpunk; 11-29-2011 at 02:30 AM.
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I'm pretty sure 'High Times' is the official dope smokers rag. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
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Okay, but only if the wash tub is full of fried okra. And I haven't decided yet whether it's to be okra or curry. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
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In my opinion, Malmsteen is not only the greatest guitarist who ever lived, but also quite probably the greatest musician of any sort who ever lived, with the possible exceptions of Country Dick Montana, Mrs. Miller, and during his salad years, Liberace. Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
Last edited by cjm; 11-29-2011 at 05:17 AM.
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Oh, you were trying to make a funny. Got it. Originally Posted by cjm
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I'm quite serious. Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
Here is why i am undecided as to whether Malmsteen or Miller is the greatest musician (certainly Malmsteen is the more gooder guitarist of the two):
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