Jazz Guitar Players in the Style of Keith Jarrett

**fumblefingers** · 09-12-2011, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by jster

Didn't seem like the most focussed discussion. Didn't mean to derail it. But to answer your general question in the case of Metheny, he looks like he is in a lot of pain and it is a human reaction to respond to pain and as such it is distracting. Of course he is a musician and not an actor. But he is on stage. If he came on wearing an orange jumpsuit or played with his mouth wide open, those would be equally distracting. To call it prejudice is far fetched. Presumably he has some control over it. If he didn't that would be another matter. But he has every right to continue doing it. And I have every right to find it distracting. But here is no moral failure on anybody's part.

I think it’s the old BB King pained expression face, gone wild. Other blues guitar players are notorious for overdoing it.

Regarding jazzers and PM in particular, I believe that it’s partly due to (1) the mental effort one exerts in order to improvise (not knowing exactly where you're going can be stressful indeed. And he has the pressure to be brilliant all the time).

But I believe it’s also partly due to pretentiousness and self-indulgence. ("Man I'm really great, and I'm playing something really amazing here, and you can tell by all my spasms".)

**Billnc** · 09-12-2011, 08:46 AM

We're dealing with a listening art. If the performer is creating sounds I don't like I can't listen. Kieth's groans are unbearable to me.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-12-2011, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Trouble is, Keith can't shut up and still play the piano. I believe he's tried.

You may know this -- does he do that on his classic recording? Or do they try to eliminate them from the recordings?

**Jabberwocky** · 09-12-2011, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

You may know this -- does he do that on his classic recording? Or do they try to eliminate them from the recordings?

The classical Keith I have no experience with so I don't have an answer to that. The Melody Tonight with You is one of his "quieter" recordings.

To those who get annoyed, give yourself some more time. It took me a while and I didn't give up because there is so much there there. It is part of his art. If you listen for his musical ideas, you filter the noise out eventually. The only ones I know who get all bothered are mainly the audiophiles who don't listen to music but soundscapes and faults in recordings.

Just as you cannot fault someone who has Tourette's Syndrome, I cannot fault Keith Jarrett for his vocal "art". Call it an artistic tic, if you will. At least, be thankful that he doesn't try to sing. Now, THAT would be disastrous.

**markf** · 09-12-2011, 02:09 PM

anyone heard Glenn Gould?

**markf** · 09-13-2011, 07:53 AM

I listened to part of the "Koln concert" yesterday, ten minutes of scales over a couple of chords, is what I thought I heard. can't remember if there was grunting or not.

you know, after listening to the byrds with thousands of screaming kids, chairs collapsing, and hysteria, (long time ago)

I can put up with a little grunting

**Soco** · 09-13-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by jster

I'll tell you what bothers me more than Jarrett: Metheny's faces. WTF is up with that? Like somebody is amputating his leg or something. It is endless. Putting some emotion into your playing is one thing. The endless emotion of saying good-bye to your leg without anesthetic is another.

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen!! Lol.
I was teaching a lesson yesterday and I kept thinking of this, hilarious.

**whatswisdom** · 09-13-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

At least, be thankful that he doesn't try to sing.

That's exactly why I can't be thankful.

(I was listening to solo Monk last night in bed on my headphones. You can hear him humming along here and there ever so slightly. Never gets in the way 'cause it's so subtle.)

Jarrett is plain annoying. Love Peacock & DeJohnette; love his piano playing--just can't get past the voice. But, hey, a lot of folks can, and that's okay too.

**whatswisdom** · 09-13-2011, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by markf

I listened to part of the "Koln concert" yesterday, ten minutes of scales over a couple of chords, is what I thought I heard. can't remember if there was grunting or not...I can put up with a little grunting

Listen to it again. It's gruntorama at gruntfest in grunt city. I remember around 1981 the first time I heard it, thinking, "Who's the dude sitting in the front row and why wasn't he thrown out of the concert hall?!"

**zonedout245** · 09-13-2011, 05:57 PM

Strange; I've read Keith Jarrett has absolute pitch. Especially for a pianist, the scatting makes him not seem it.

**markf** · 09-13-2011, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

Listen to it again. It's gruntorama at gruntfest in grunt city. I remember around 1981 the first time I heard it thinking, "WTF. Who's the dude sitting in the front row and why wasn't he thrown out of the concert hall?!"

I meant to say, porcininity aside, is I thought the music was ho hum. two chords, a one and a minor two, and a bunch of scales. for quite a while;

"new age" kind of stuff.

**markf** · 09-13-2011, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Soco

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen!! Lol.
I was teaching a lesson yesterday and I kept thinking of this, hilarious.

There are a some very famous players that have gotten a lot of mileage and even more money out of a look of great artistic pain on the ole mug.

people seem to love it.

it's the outpouring of emotion;

what the hell, if it works, maybe I'll start doing it in the back of the restaurant.

**whatswisdom** · 09-13-2011, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by markf

I thought the music was ho hum...two chords, a one and a minor two, and a bunch of scales..."new age" kind of stuff.

Agree with you on that. Probably his most new age and overrated recording. Give me the studio "Facing You" any day. Brilliant album, and hardly a whimper.

**Soco** · 09-14-2011, 12:41 AM

I am a huge fan of Keith Jarrett, he is my favorite pianist along with Bill Evans.
The grunting never bothered my, his playing is too brilliant, I don't even pay attention to it. What if you couldn't enjoy Novak Djokovic brilliant tennis because of his grunting? It wouldn't make any sense-then you are not really interested in tennis.

**fumblefingers** · 09-14-2011, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Soco

I am a huge fan of Keith Jarrett, he is my favorite pianist along with Bill Evans.
The grunting never bothered my, his playing is too brilliant, I don't even pay attention to it. What if you couldn't enjoy Novak Djokovic brilliant tennis because of his grunting? It wouldn't make any sense-then you are not really interested in tennis.

i dont know if that analogy really works Soco - you could turn down the tv and enjoy the tennis.

if you turn the sound down with music..... you have nothing.

BTW - i dont mind his moaning that much either, as long as its not too loud.

**Soco** · 09-14-2011, 09:35 AM

I think it works. I have watched tennis without any sound, and it gets really boring.

**whatswisdom** · 09-14-2011, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Soco

I think it works. I have watched tennis without any sound...

That's the only way I can watch it. Listening to McEnroe and others' endless BS about nothing has long been muted on my set. Enough to drive you insane. The matches are so much more enjoyable without the torture. Perfect too while running scales, arps & various rote fingerstyle exercises on my acoustic.

**Soco** · 09-14-2011, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

That's the only way I can watch it. Listening to McEnroe and others' endless BS about nothing has long been muted on my set. Enough to drive you insane. The matches are so much more enjoyable without the torture. Perfect too while running scales, arps & various rote fingerstyle exercises on my acoustic.

I agree on the commentators, they talk way too much.
I also usually practice while I watch these games.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 09-14-2011, 11:12 AM

I don't really care anything about the Koln concert. It's cool for what it is, but I don't really care about listening to it.

The Melody Tonight With You is a studio recording. Maybe he just does it on the live stuff?

I really like the "Standards" concert recordings of the trio. I like the interaction and am not as interested in his solo or studio recordings. I don't really pay attention to the humming. It's just part of the package if you listen to him. I think his music is worth it.

**markf** · 09-14-2011, 02:02 PM

Soco are you familiar with any of these people?

Jørn Skogheim. Kristiansand 08.06.1995. Jørn Skogheim, Frøydis Grorud, Kenneth Ekornes, Anders Aarum, Tom Frode Tveita;

Jørn Skogheim is a fine guitarist.

**christiaandejongguitar** · 06-19-2013, 01:25 PM

keith jarrett related guitarists: Sylvain Luc, Ralph Towner, Christiaan de Jong

**Sphere** · 06-19-2013, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Is this a little beside the point? Judging a person and whether they appeal to you as an artist by what they look like? I'm sure it's not something they can really help, nor might they want to. Pet peeves aside, there are so many obstacles to be overcome to be an passable, no less exceptional expressive artist, what is about a person's look that's so repugnant that it becomes off putting? I've heard the same comments about (trumpeter) Tom Harrell, and pianist Michel Petrucciani and others with regards to skin pigment, or stage manner.
If they had video technology in the time of Beethoven and we found out he hummed or had a bad stage presence, would it taint our ability to appreciate his genius?
I'm just curious as to where this prejudice comes from.
I am genuinely curious.
David

So it's fine to complain about Jarrett's involuntary vocalizations, and even dismiss his creative output on that basis, but a fictitious comment about Metheny's guitar faces is completely out of line?

**DarkFuneral** · 07-12-2013, 12:19 AM

The answer is no, the reason why? Because guitar and piano are two different instruments.

Can a piano player play like a guitar player, no, why? for the same reason.

**Sammo** · 07-23-2013, 03:33 AM

Have already heard about this incredible Keith Jarrett minus the music offer:
http://www.planetcanadice.com/Skits/KJOffer.mp3 (I love KJ and the grunting doesn't bother me but it's funny nevertheless)