Jim Hall Sound

[rhl-ferndale]

Seems an appropriate time to cross link JH admirers to Jim Hall dot com, which appears to be well maintained by Devra Hall.

Jim Hall


And thanks El Fundo for your lyrical insight and judgment, especially this: “Both Desmond and Hall were burners. They just burned with a lower flame. And a lower flame is still fire.”

[ronjazz]

I had the great pleasure of hearing Desmond and Hall at Carnegie Recital Hall last century, and to this day, Desmond's playing with guitarists (Hall, Bickert, Szabo, Bertoncini) always makes my day better.

[lawson-stone]

At the risk of breaking the spirit of it being in the hands and all... here is some advice our own "Greentone" gave me for at least having the hardware in place to get Jim Hall's early career tone:

My own similarities to Jim Hall include:
Gibson ES175
Polytone Babybrute
No Hair on Head
Glasses

Greentone's advice:

"First: never use the distortion knob. It is soul depleting. Next, bass=12 o'clock, mid=12'o'clock, treble=10 o'clock, slide switch in middle position. ES-175 on neck position. I like the humbucker volume rolled back to about five, the tone on the guitar around six, and the volume on the Baby Brute around 10 o'clock. Oh, yeah, put a teeny bit of reverb in there. You don't need much--just a hint. Hall played pretty dry, as I recall it.

Notice this: with the volume on the amp above about 10 o'clock, you will really feel air shooting out of the unused input hole on the top of the amp! That amp is really working."

[Jonah]

Hall usually seems musically and personally self-effacing but I suspect he could be very "alpha" when he felt it necessary. One can find a long, unedited interview with Jim and his daughter Devra on the Interwebs towards the end of his life. It's about 90+ pages long

I tried the search quite intensively but could not find anything.. maybe any link? Would be great to read it.

Thanks

[takauya]

Metheny would sneak back into the studio and make "little fixes" on all his guitar solos.

This is so Metheny. You could even say I'll Metheny on this track later. lol

BTW, I've also read that Jim Hall didn't like that Metheny had "fixed" their recording. He was pretty open as to how he felt about it.

[grahambop]

I tried the search quite intensively but could not find anything.. maybe any link? Would be great to read it.

Thanks

possibly this one:

Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program | National Museum of American History

[snoskier63]

Simple answer: both.

[Hammertone]

One more Polytone tip: put dummy 1/4" plugs into various/all unused jacks (I use craptastic old "Pancake" head plugs) to tune the speaker damping of the Polytone.

[mattymel]

the jim hall sound...been one of my obsessions for the last 10 years. as mentioned, there are different eras.

my favorite is the late 50s/early 60s. single P90 Es175 with the famous GA50. I've played both together and thats still less than half the equation. you're really talking about a very unique technique and articulation.

I've been transcribing ALOT of his stuff for the last few years from that era. the times when I'm feeling I'm getting closest to his sound are (as someone else noted) when I'm picking above the neck pickup (very close to the edge of the highest fret) with light articulation and a lot of sweeps. thats a BIG part of it. his technique is one of the best of any guitarist, hands down.

as far as settings on the amp, its funny. people often talk so much about how DARK his tone is. but what i am hearing is a very flat EQ and if anything, with the bass turned down. the biggest part is rolling down the volume knob. you can confirm this by watching him. the tone knob too, but not that much (9, or 8 at lowest).

when you roll down the volume on the guitar you get a more acoustic sound from the pickup. to me its much closer to what the guitar sounds like unplugged. on the old P90s, they are still relatively hot pickups. so when he has it turned close to all the way up, you HEAR it. and he almost always goes right back down. haha. the old GA50 starts to break up a good amount. you can tell he is trying to avoid that at all costs to get his sound. hence, possibly where people say the "energy dies"? malarkey says i.

it blows me away how often people blast on Jim for not being able to play fast. i guess i get where they are coming from. but to me, its nonsense. listen to "the bridge"...if you can find faster tunes ON ANY RECORD let me know. is it the most shredding? no. but obviously Sonny dug it. as did Bill E, Wayne, Paul, Art Farmer, Ron Carter, Ornette, Jimmy Giuffre, Chico Hamilton, etc. I mean the guy has basically the most impressive discography of any guitarist in history. Miles
asked him to do the 60s stuff and Jim said no. Ha.

the difference between his fast playing and other guitarists? he still has his phrasing, still gets his tone, and plays cool stuff. obviously more heavy hitters dug him more than basically any other guitarist. and for good reason.

[rpjazzguitar]

Jim Hall's ballad comping is my favorite of everything I've ever heard done on a guitar by anybody.

The P90 175 GA50 was what he used, afaik, on Glad To Be Unhappy, but I'd guess he would sound like himself on a broad range of guitars.

I'm not sure how he got the clarity of articulation of chords that he got, but my guess it was him, not the gear.

[helios]

I love Jim Hall's tone & playing on "All Across The City", and my current Holst guitar is modeled after is Sadowsky laminate. When I saw Jim Hall at the "Great American Music Hall" in SF around 1985, his tone & playing were subdued & restrained to the point of disappointment, so I agree with the gentleman who said his sound isn't always there, but then, who's is?

[whiskey02]

One more Polytone tip: put dummy 1/4" plugs into various/all unused jacks (I use craptastic old "Pancake" head plugs) to tune the speaker damping of the Polytone.

Would you mind dumbing that down for me a bit Hammer, I’ve no idea what you mean when you say “ tune speaker damping”.
Thanks.

[JazzDaddyD]

Thanks all, for your insights. I have also noticed, but not studied, how the volume setting on the guitar affects the tone- with the volume down and the amp up, the tone is quite different than having the guitar up to "10" and the volume down. In fact I think it is quite remarkable how much that affects tone. I will go play with that some more!

[lawson-stone]

These guitars were wired somewhat differently in the 50's than they are today. Some connection between the volume and tone was involved, but I don't know what it was.

[Hammertone]

Would you mind dumbing that down for me a bit Hammer, I’ve no idea what you mean when you say “ tune speaker damping”. Thanks.

Ha!....Sure.
The amp has a bunch of small holes all over the place. They are all 1/4" jacks. Plug them all up. The amp will work better.

[JCat]

Thanks all, for your insights. I have also noticed, but not studied, how the volume setting on the guitar affects the tone- with the volume down and the amp up, the tone is quite different than having the guitar up to "10" and the volume down. In fact I think it is quite remarkable how much that affects tone. I will go play with that some more!

Things to consider:

1, The volume pots resistance and taper. For example; 500k pots are brighter than 300k pots when fully open. Audio taper rolls off faster than linear taper, so in reality a 300 k linear pot on 7 could be louder and brighter than a 500 k audio pot on 7.

2, Modern vs 50s wiring: with modern wiring more high end is lost when you roll down volume. (With 50s wiring volume drops when you roll down the Tone pot)

3, Pickup and magnets: When rolling down volume, Humbuckers lose high end faster than P-90s/single coils. A5 magnets (common in vintage P-90s and some early PAFs) are more textured and edgy than A2 magnets. If you got A5 magnets, you may like to roll down guitar volume a few notches for a mellow tone.

Tip: Dial in the amp for the neck pickup with guitar volume set to 8. You'll then get some headroom for a louder, more cutting tone when required or a more mellow tone by rolling down volume. This is most useful with 500k audio pots in modern wiring (the most common configuration in contemporary humbucker equipped Gibsons)

[JCat]

I like Jim Hall and his musical expression, including a most admirable tone on some recordings. He had a long career and obviously his tone developed. On his early self titled albums (in my highly personal opinion) his tone was thin, probably a combination of settings including studio recording equipment and recording technique.

Better to focus on the good stuff, like this legendary playing and tone (as early as 1962). Jazz guitar at its finest:

[Bbmaj7#5#9]

Jim could actually pick quite hard, when he wanted to.

He truly understood dynamics and how to control sound with his hands.

One thing also to consider, especially in his later years, Jim used amplification just enough to be heard...

I agree completely. The track ”Young One For Debra” on his album ”It’s Nice To Be With You” from 1969 has some of the most dynamic and finest tones I’ve ever heard in jazz.

[Doug B]

Does anyone know what guitar JH played on Wonder Boy? AS usuall he gets a great sounding tone!

[TH]

Gibson es-175 he had from the time he was a studio musician for the Merv Griffith show, even before. He played this guitar as his primary guitar, 1 pickup, and later in its career it got several upgrades from Jimmy D.
But maybe I didn't understand your question properly again.
David

[Doug B]

Gibson es-175 he had from the time he was a studio musician for the Merv Griffith show, even before. He played this guitar as his primary guitar, 1 pickup, and later in its career it got several upgrades from Jimmy D.
But maybe I didn't understand your question properly again.
David

Thanks for answering. I guess it really depends on when JH made the Wonder Boy album.

Doug

[neatomic]

first off wonder boy is not a real album by jim hall...its a new mixed compilation of his early stuff (late 50's to early 60's) with guys like desmond, bill evans jimmy giuffre etc ...it's a spotify/amazon type mix

haing said that, its all early stuff when he was using the single neck p90 es 175...that he bought in the mid 50's and used till the early 70's...when it became too precious and fragile to take on the road




cheers

[Doug B]

first off wonder boy is not a real album by jim hall...its a new mixed compilation of his early stuff (late 50's to early 60's)

Oh, ok-I did not know that. That's the problem with an audio download vs cd-a distinct lack of background!

[sgcim]

I was just reading about how Hall used a guitar tuned up a fourth on a Gerry Mulligan Sextet album called "Night Lights" recorded in 1963. I think they were going for a harp-like effect. Never heard it.

[joe2758]

I was just reading about how Hall used a guitar tuned up a fourth

yikes, that's brave!