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This got weird.
… also who’s going to the mall? It’s 2025 … are we still getting our shades at Sunglass Hut?
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02-17-2025 07:29 PM
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The mall is a great place to meet young ladies, at least it is if you're really handsome like me, YMMV. So yeah, I go to the mall sometimes.
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Anyway, what, you got something against guys who wear panties? It is 2025.
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So long as men wearing panties isn't mandatory, I have no problem with it. I feel the same way about Gay marriage.
Jimmy Bruno is a bit burnt out (can't blame him) and the effects of old age are upon him. At 67, my arthritic fingers cannot do what they used to, so to you young cats reading this: make hay while the sun shines.
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Again? Originally Posted by David B
He's made that announcement before and it didn't stick. He has said he was able to save up enough money to be able to retire and not have to keep playing gigs, etc., so that he could just take the gigs he really wanted to take and could say no to everything else. I remember he referred to it as "fuck you money." It was a pretty funny video. Maybe being able to turn those crappy gigs down was enough to keep doing the good ones. Perhaps this time it'll stick- we do mostly all eventually come to a point where soldiering on has such diminishing returns that it isn't worth it.
You know, Jimmy's resilience is pretty remarkable. I remember years back when he had his severe medical crisis, he posted a video from what seemed to be his hospital room announcing that he was really messed up and unable to play the guitar anymore. And then a few months later he was starting to play again, a few months after that he was getting his chops back together and within about a year he was blazing. He started his first online music school. It was pretty remarkable to watch his progress with all of that and then he had close to another decade of stellar musicianship. His playing with Frank V over the past couple of years has been wonderful.
So if this is really it, I hope he's got a great retirement lined up for himself. Jimmy certainly provided a lot of enjoyment for a lot of people for a lot of years.
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Jimmy, I love ya brother, and you're one of the fucking best to play jazz guitar. I was listening to some of your recent performances the other day, and you're lines were so fluid, interesting, and creative; it was really eye-opening, from one player to another.
It's like, what you were playing was so creative and elegant that it kept me listening, excited about, and pleased with the awesome creativity and sense of melody you were displaying. I've never heard anyone playing the tunes quite like you were playing them, and your playing was totally awesome.
Hey Jimmy, I think I'm a pretty good player, but when I listen to the way you're playing, it's like, "school's in session; sit down, shut up, and learn." It's true. When I hear you playing, even amongst other great players, something about your playing always shines. It's like, "oh wow, man, something fabulous is happening right here." That's the way I talk anyway.
I just want to let you know that, Jimmy, from one player to another.
Peace, love, and stay joyful,
Ray
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Society went bisexual. Originally Posted by AdroitMage
Last edited by Al Haig; 02-17-2025 at 10:48 PM.
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In one of the Buddy bus rants, he yells at someone (paraphrase): "What's all this Berklee shit??? In this band, we play TIME!!!" Originally Posted by starjasmine
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Questions for professional musicians here in the USA: how is retirement different than say someone that worked for a company?
E.g. While one is working (and 1099ed I assume), does one pay Social Security? Medicare deductions? Thus, they get these benefits, upon retirement.
If a musician decides to un-retire, what is required? E.g. just starting to pay union dues again?
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When you are 1099'd, no deductions are taken out for Social Security/medicare. Like any other self employed person, a musician pays SE tax which is essentially both the employer and employee paid social security/medicare contributions (most people are blissfully unaware that an employer is required by law to pay a matching amount of an employees contribution in that regard). Originally Posted by jameslovestal
For a union musician to un-retire, they have to reactivate their inactive union status and discontinue drawing union pension benefits (if any).. A non-union musician simply needs to re start working (if they can find work). I am in the process of retiring from a 20 year run as a pro musician. I gave up two gigs that I held for about 15 years. There was a long line of musicians to get those spots. I have one gig left (they have begged me to continue) and I am doing that gig (3 times a month and subbing out the other 1-2 times a month) through this year and then it will be curtains. I always like to leave things on my own terms. Some people stay at the party too long.
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Yeah self employment tax and a personal investment account. Been lucky to work part time for some places that match retirement contributions so maxing out that is always good when I can.
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Thanks for the info. I was an independent contractor doing IT work, but only for two years and thus paid those SE taxes you mention. Yea, that combined amount was a killer and not something I was aware of when I signed my first independent contractor, contract. The next time I increased my hourly rate! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
It would be interesting to see how the Feds determine a self-employed musicians' monthly social security benefits. I mention this because I assume for many their annual income could be all over the map (i.e. not a fairly steady so-many-thousand-per-year), and that it is likely the last decade's income might be one of their lowest periods (verses standard mainly white-collar jobs where the final decade is often the most annual income).
Are royalty payments also 1099ed? E.g. Bruno did a few albums for Concord; Did Concord pay fed\state taxes and then pay Jimmy or was Jimmy just paid and then had to pay SE taxes from that gross royalty payment?
Anyhow, just rhetorical questions. I just retired as of December, so I have a lot of time to think about things that don't concern me!
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Royalty payments are ordinary income that are 1099'd and are subject to SE tax Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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I'm sure the 17 cents a year he gets from spotify are taxed. He's not even on the Concord records website, so.... no royalties there. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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Playing the guitar for a true living doing nothing else is work. Most of this forum including me do not work as musicians full time or much of a time. For a period of about 2 years after college I played and taught guitar to live. It was really hard work and long hours. You never had any guarantee of income or students. I am glad I never went that route to make a living.
Jimmy is a real original and he speaks his mind. Maybe the most important thing I considered about him is he lost he beloved wife of many years I believe close to 50 years, about 1 year ago. That situation will change your whole prosecutive and I give him credit for 50 years of staying together. That speaks to me more than his music if I had to be truthful. Given the state of marriage in the present world he managed well.
From my own perspective I lost my beloved 6 years ago and everything is different. In fact, the longer it gets more apparent this is, and I am sure this may be in the back of Jimmy's mind. I am just guessing but it can make things dark at times. In my case I am not going to remarry as I am in vowed religious life and would not anyhow but living with no companion might make music and the music business the worst thing to be in.
Sitting on your chair in the bedroom or music room in the house playing things you like and at your leisure is one thing. But, going out and hustling gigs all in the evening hours, and playing different places on going scheduling and unknowns........Well to me that is not a great way to live and probably not real healthy. Even at my age of almost 64 drivng at night sraying up late and lugging even light gear around sounds no fun.
Jimmy enjoy we don't know how much time we have left so do what you want at this point.
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A lot of musicians are paid under the table for gigs in cash with little paper trail, and they may or may not report this and pay their self-employment tax. If your weekly take for four gigs is $200 in cash and your rent is due, it's pretty hard to make your estimated tax payments to the IRS. However, if you don't pay into Social Security during your working life, you may not be entitled to get anything from it when you retire. There are certain number of quarters you need to pay in over the course of your lifetime to get benefits. Benefits are roughly determined through an average of a number of your highest earning years. I should know all these numbers since I'm 65, but I'm not yet filing for Social Security benefits.
In Jimmy's case, from statements he's made in some of his videos, he has retirement income independent of gigging. I believe for a period of time he owned and operated a restaurant/club; he had his music school; he may very well have been an employee when working for Frank Sinatra, Buddy Rich, etc., so he may very well have paid his Social Security during that part of his career. If he was a member of the musicians union, he may have pension benefits through that. And good for him! A lot of musicians are either not able to do this or not financially savvy enough and end up either not being able to retire or being destitute in retirement. Spike Wilner at Small's has written about this in his newsletters, he knows a lot of older musicians who are in dire financial straits (and most of them living in one of the most expensive places in the United States to live). For all of Jimmy's blunt manner and speech, he's a bright guy and has probably done good planning.
Just as musicians nowadays require many different revenue streams to make a living, because gigs pay so poorly and record label contracts are pretty much done for jazz, in retirement they also require multiple revenue streams. Not so long ago, we were talking about the looming demise of music labels as they were no longer necessary and musicians could directly sell their music to the public; then along came piracy and legalized piracy in the form of streaming services. So now the consumer can get access to basically all the music in the world and the musicians and songwriters get paid virtually nothing for their work. Big Music came back with a vengeance by colluding with streaming services to cut musicians and songwriters out of the financial pie almost entirely. And now Big Music is taking those gains and purchasing the music catalogs of some of the biggest stars in the industry, further consolidating their vice-like grip on music for their own profits. For those stars whose catalogs have been purchased, their estate planning has been greatly simplified and they can avoid the nightmare that Prince's family has been through. The music industry is now once again a plantation mentality.
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I would be very interested to see how many people make enough from Spotify to meet the minimum threshold for receiving tax paperwork. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I was talking about the income he earned from Concord when the albums, and then CDs were released (decades ago). Originally Posted by AllanAllen
But you do add clarity to one of the assumptions I made: that a musician tends to make less money, on an annual basis, as they get into their later years (unlike white-collar workers).
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Probably depends. Everyone is different but older musicians will have had time to find their niche, establish some regular gigs, initiate some other revenue streams, increase their value in their market etc. So I’d imagine an older musician would be making more than a younger one, all else equal. Though it would probably be a much smaller increase than that of a white collar worker moving from entry level to upper-middle management or something. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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Wasn't there a Gofundme page just last year for Jimmy set up by Frank Vignola.Seems like his financial situation can't be that great if he needed that to get by which makes me surprised that he is able to retire.
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He did a lot of lucrative, steady work in Vegas playing shows until the strike ended that scene. The only musicians that get a decent pension from the Union were guys that worked steady shows on Broadway or Vegas.
Musicians that did other types of Union gigs that weren't as steady and high paying don't get as much.
The problem with Broadway shows is that most of them close.
I just finished John Pizzarelli's memoir, "World on a String", and he thought he had it made when he scored an opening role in the Broadway show "Dream". Opening night, they got bad reviews, and the star, Leslie Anne Warren, quit the second night! The show closed a few months later.
OTOH, you can get very lucky like jay Berliner, and get the opening seat in "Chicago", the longest running show in Broadway history. He's still doing it, and has it made. A friend of mine did subs for him, and hasn't done a gig in almost ten years.
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Most people will never earn good money as a musician because they aren't talented enough. THAT, is the 300LB gorilla in the room that no one seems to want to admit to themselves. Sorry, but that is simply the truth that never seens to dawn on the geniuses.
IF you are talented enough and really creative, there is a LOT of money to be made as a musician. So if you are one of the really talented ones, don't be discouraged by the neerdowell's sadsack whining and sob stories. Hey, and some guys who are really talented don't have the business acumen to figure out how to do it. That's the other part of the game.
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You are sort of right on both points. The guys with exceptional talent will mostly find managers with the business acumen to get them well paid. The exceptional musician who is in the right place and time will be well paid. In today's world, those of us who have a modicum of talent, but are not exceptional can make a modest living at music, and doing even that takes a modicum of business acumen. And sadly, the exceptional musician who is not in the right time and place will probably not do any better than the rest of us. Originally Posted by AdroitMage
If you are in this for the money, my advice is choose a different path or have a plan B. If you are in this because you have the calling, go for it and good luck!
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I have to believe that JB was an AFM member for much of his career, given his high visibility and that of the leaders and artists for whom he worked. I don't know how it is today, but I found out the hard way that the AFM pension plan in the '60s through at least the '80s was totally dependent on the interaction and diligence of leaders / employers and the union local's leadership. The AFM has had a mandatory pension program for many years. It's currently a defined benefit plan to which all contributions come from employers. When I joined in 1969, pension contributions were mandatory - but they took it out of our pay. I quit the union about 25 years ago because my local did virtually nothing to justify my dues, so I don't know when it switched entirely to employer contributions. Nevertheless, pension conributions were supposed to have been made for each dollar of wages paid to a union musician. But that didn't always happen. Originally Posted by Cunamara
I have my Social Security record of every cent I received in wages and paid in taxes from my first earned dollar when I was a kid. So I know exactly how much I made while I was a dues paying member of the AFM. About 20 years ago, I became curious as to how much I'd get from my union pension and at what age I could start taking it. So I called headquarters in NY to ask. I was told that I hadn't earned enough to be vested in a pension plan, so I would get nothing. Since I had my earnings statement from Social Security, I knew that I'd earned far more than the minimum, yet the union claimed that they only had a record of about $200 in contributions for me.
I played at least 3 really good gigs a week for a large organization back then that had 14 full time leaders and over 200 sidemen on their roster. I got paid every 2 weeks IIRC, and a pension contribution was taken out of every check. Like everybody else, I also played nonunion gigs, but the bulk of my income was through the office. Union dues were deducted from each check, so I know the union was aware that I was playing these gigs. Unknown to me at the time because I was a stupid kid who never checked with union headquarters to be sure they got my money, the pension contributions that were recorded on my checks miraculously disappeared before reaching the union. It wasn't just me, either. It happened to friends, and I've learned that it was quite common in some locals.
Idle speculation about where the money went is a waste of my time. There was absolutely nothing I could do about it. That was about 10 years of my life, and only the first 4 were really productive because I got married while in graduate school and cut back my gigging. Hiring a lawyer would have cost me more than I stood to get back. The leadership of my local from back then are all dead, as are the leaders for whom I worked, and I've come to terms with not having the $. There are a lot of union musicians who worked hard for years in the 20th century who never got all the pension dollars to which they were entitled. I'm told that Local 77 (Philadephia) has been run very well for several years now by younger people who are taking their responsibility seriously and doing a fine job for the members. But that was definitely not the case when I (and Jimmy Bruno) were eager young turks. So his union pension funds may also not be what they should have been.
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If you want a good pension and health benefits, I suggest you run for office and be a Senator or Rep at the state of federal level. It has to be easier than being a musician because some of the people are well beyond any retirement age. They are one step in the nursing home and still able to work. Think of all tunes you need to know......
none and you just vote a bill up or down.
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You should not become a musician because you're in it for the money, you should be in it for LOVE. See my avatar. If you do what you love, the money will follow. You've really got to do some soul-searching, though, and ask yourself, "am I a good enough player? Do I have enough talent?" You need to be really honest with yourself about that. Personally, I wouldn't try to become a jazz musician unless I was not only "good," but really exceptionally good at it, a top "outlier" on the bell curve good.
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