Opera used to sound... much more NORMAL?

[palindrome]

Opera has always mystified me, but these explanations (and examples) finally make some sense to me.


Watching this video, I miraculously caught myself appreciating the old stuff presented (while continuing to hate the new stuff).

[Christian Miller]

Very enjoyable video. I used to study classical singing. It’s a bit of a cliche to say the old singers had the vibe, the modern singers have the technique. Tbh I just enjoyed listening to all these great singers. It’s interesting how much more vibrato today’s singers employ. I had it in my head the opposite was true. In fact the older singers expressed more ‘heart on sleeve’ but the sound itself was often quite simple.

anyway it reminded me of this excellent video discussing early classical recordings in general. The points on phrasing and rhythm are very interesting.

i don’t know how much we can say the old recordings always represent the performance practice of the time. There was a limit to how loud performers could sing without having the needle jump off the wax for instance. you run into the same problems with early jazz for example.

What is well known is that vocal technique changed massively in the 19th century and presumably the 20th too.

[SandChannel]

I love opera - especially modern works. Music is not static. That said, you should listen to whatever speaks to you. Personally, I prefer Berg over Puccini every time.

[Gabor]

On the "agility" part surprisingly I found the old style with better agility disturbing.

It makes completely no sense why I am prefering the less agile musical rendition. I think the reason is somewhere in the disturbing "operism" what I found in the old recording, it is simply "too much", to much as a human sound, the listener more likely associates to a machine produced sound, "scary". It completely explains why some people run away when hearing a soprano aria :-)

[Woody Sound]

Related, there are also some pretty “out there” Broadway musicals.

[Doctor Jeff]

I could watch her explain the phone book to me for hours.

[Marinero]

A pathetic Y2K way to promote yourself discussing serious material with the red titty top and the fashionista Michael Jackson glove. There might be some good info here but I'll never tune in . . . sad, very sad.
Marinero

[James W]

A pathetic Y2K way to promote yourself discussing serious material with the red titty top and the fashionista Michael Jackson glove. There might be some good info here but I'll never tune in . . . sad, very sad.
Marinero

So you'll never tune in solely because of a 'titty top', despite what could be some good info? Sounds pitifully misogynist to me.

I think I know who is the sad one.

[Marinero]

So you'll never tune in solely because of a 'titty top', despite what could be some good info? Sounds pitifully misogynist to me.

I think I know who is the sad one.

Be careful with your speech, J! Mommy might send you back to your bedroom until you calm down.
Marinero

P.S. Sexualizing Classical Music . . . misogynist???? You're so Woke you ought to go back to bed.
M

[James W]

Be careful with your speech, J! Mommy might send you back to your bedroom until you calm down.
Marinero

P.S. Sexualizing Classical Music . . . misogynist???? You're so Woke you ought to go back to bed.
M

No, not sexualising classical music is misogynist (the woman isn't doing that in any case) you're the one who's misogynist for refusing to watch a video about something solely because someone is exposing the slightest bit of cleavage.

[Marinero]

No, not sexualising classical music is misogynist (the woman isn't doing that in any case) you're the one who's misogynist for refusing to watch a video about something solely because someone is exposing the slightest bit of cleavage.

O.K., Jimmy,
You claim to be an educated person but apparently you didn't read the chapter in school on Mao's Cultural Revolution in China where schools/universities were closed, books burned in the streets, intellectuals/artists/scientists/philosphers harrangued, murdered, and interned in concentration camps by Mao's young cultural warriors and the end result being *45 million people disappeared during his reign of cultural cleansing. Improper speech, thoughts, ideas had to be expunged from Chinese society. Well, Jimmy, that's what some in your generation want with this incredibly inane and imbecilic guardianship of "improper speech or ideas". . . "Wokism." You need to get a life and spend more time with music or ,perhaps, find a job. . . you are working, aren't you??? If you want to discuss music, I will respond to those posts if I'm interested but I will not waste another word on trying to educate a "Woke" cultural warrior about Freedom, Democracy, and the Right to free speech as guaranteed in our US Constitution. I wonder if you really understand how dangerous your attitude is for society and the world in general? Well, just ask any Eastern Europeans who escaped the Communist Block after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Marinero




Remembering the biggest mass murder in the history of the ...

[James W]

O.K., Jimmy,
You claim to be an educated person but apparently you didn't read the chapter in school on Mao's Cultural Revolution in China where schools/universities were closed, books burned in the streets, intellectuals/artists/scientists/philosphers harrangued, murdered, and interned in concentration camps by Mao's young cultural warriors and the end result being *45 million people disappeared during his reign of cultural cleansing. Improper speech, thoughts, ideas had to be expunged from Chinese society. Well, Jimmy, that's what some in your generation want with this incredibly inane and imbecilic guardianship of "improper speech or ideas". . . "Wokism." You need to get a life and spend more time with music or ,perhaps, find a job. . . you are working, aren't you??? If you want to discuss music, I will respond to those posts if I'm interested but I will not waste another word on trying to educate a "Woke" cultural warrior about Freedom, Democracy, and the Right to free speech as guaranteed in our US Constitution. I wonder if you really understand how dangerous your attitude is for society and the world in general? Well, just ask any Eastern Europeans who escaped the Communist Block after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Marinero




Remembering the biggest mass murder in the history of the ...

Ah yes, respect for women = Maoism. Why didn't someone tell me that? lol

[ronjazz]

Be careful with your speech, J! Mommy might send you back to your bedroom until you calm down.
Marinero

P.S. Sexualizing Classical Music . . . misogynist???? You're so Woke you ought to go back to bed.
M

Very sad reaction, Marinero. Knee-jerk and defensive. Looks like somebody got under your thin skin. Wouldn't hurt you one bit to get little more "woke", given the ridiculous comparison you made between free thinking and authoritarian communism.

[Marinero]

DISCLAIMER:***In respect for concision and brevity, I wish to address our two esteemed contributors, namely: JamesW and RonJazz for their PC responses to my recent post denouncing a young, brainless Youtuber trying to sexualize Classical Music with her "Titty Top" and questionable Michael Jackson glove. This temptation is far beyond my mortal control . . . however, it does not reach the level of profundity as:
1.) Lucifer's temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden
2.) Joan of Arc's courageous rejection of church authority as opposed to her direct communion with God
3.) Pol Pot's torture and execution of over a million fellow Cambodians for political reasons
ERGO: when I went to school they taught Math. It has been a valuable tool for survival. So . . . . .

One fool plus one fool equals: two fools . . . Funny how simple Math can be . . .
Marinero

[James W]

DISCLAIMER:***In respect for concision and brevity, I wish to address our two esteemed contributors, namely: JamesW and RonJazz for their PC responses to my recent post denouncing a young, brainless Youtuber trying to sexualize Classical Music with her "Titty Top" and questionable Michael Jackson glove. This temptation is far beyond my mortal control . . . however, it does not reach the level of profundity as:
1.) Lucifer's temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden
2.) Joan of Arc's courageous rejection of church authority as opposed to her direct communion with God
3.) Pol Pot's torture and execution of over a million fellow Cambodians for political reasons
ERGO: when I went to school they taught Math. It has been a valuable tool for survival. So . . . . .

One fool plus one fool equals: two fools . . . Funny how simple Math can be . . .
Marinero

Nope, not a fool, just calling you out on your misogyny. I see in addition to being a misogynist you also lack coherence - this post of yours doesn't make much sense. You're not in a position to call one youtuber 'brainless' solely on the basis of her clothing - that in itself is brainless, though clearly you lack the capacity to notice even this most glaring point of irony.

[Woody Sound]

I'm going to be playing the fretted intsruments for a 3-week run of "Something Rotten." It has to be one of the funniest shows I know. These guys in the middle ages come up with the idea for the first musical. Check out this hilarious number, starting at around 37:00.

[Woody Sound]

I could watch her explain the phone book to me for hours.

I tried to look away, but could not.

[Marinero]

Nope, not a fool, just calling you out on your misogyny. I see in addition to being a misogynist you also lack coherence - this post of yours doesn't make much sense. You're not in a position to call one youtuber 'brainless' solely on the basis of her clothing - that in itself is brainless, though clearly you lack the capacity to notice even this most glaring point of irony.

Well, J,
Sadly, you're a closet-Fascist, at heart, and want to control others' speech as if you, and your ilk, are the sole arbiter(s) of correct or incorrect speech. You, and those who think like you, represent a dangerous element in society that is the greatest threat to Democracy, Free Speech, and Individual Rights since Chairman Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Kim, and Xi. Oh, I forgot Putin. Also, sorry you couldn't understand my post since I chose to speak metaphorically. I guess it was just past your ken. I expected more from you, frankly. So, I'm done with your Woke schoolboy philosophy and, please-- feel free to post whatever vitriol you desire. And, by the way, if I presented a video discussion on say, the ballads of Dexter Gordon, wearing my Speedo swimsuit with a very full package, would you take me seriously or would you complain to the Thought Police? I am certain I know the answer.
Marinero

[James W]

Well, J,
Sadly, you're a closet-Fascist, at heart, and want to control others' speech as if you, and your ilk, are the sole arbiter(s) of correct or incorrect speech. You, and those who think like you, represent a dangerous element in society that is the greatest threat to Democracy, Free Speech, and Individual Rights since Chairman Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Kim, and Xi. Oh, I forgot Putin. Also, sorry you couldn't understand my post since I chose to speak metaphorically. I guess it was just past your ken. I expected more from you, frankly. So, I'm done with your Woke schoolboy philosophy and, please-- feel free to post whatever vitriol you desire. And, by the way, if I presented a video discussion on say, the ballads of Dexter Gordon, wearing my Speedo swimsuit with a very full package, would you take me seriously or would you complain to the Thought Police? I am certain I know the answer.
Marinero

No, Marinero, I wouldn't complain to the Thought Police if you did that, just like I wouldn't complain if a pretty woman shows a bit of cleavage.

I confess, I genuinely can't fathom why you got triggered by a woman showing a bit of cleavage. She's not even wearing a swimsuit!

I don't think this woman is sexualising classical music. But I mean, if she offends you, it's nothing compared to seeing a production of Das Rheingold with completely naked Rhinemaidens, which I saw on TV a while back. Plus I would describe the late sonatas of Scriabin to be erotic music, and he himself I believe was probably aware of this, with his scores featuring descriptions like 'avec une céleste volupté'.

I'm not trying to control your speech, and your hyperbolic invocation of dictators is just amusingly ridiculous. You can say what you like, but you can't by the same token control my speech on calling you out for being weird sort of misogynist who gets triggered by a bit of cleavage.