Jerry Coker's Keyboard book, Interested in a Study Group

[2bornot2bop]

I am interested but need [or want] to upgrade my keyboard. I have a Kawai K5000W which has a real organ/synth feel to the key-bed and I have been thinking of getting the M-Audio Oxygen Pro 49 for a bit more dynamic feel to the keys. Open to advice/suggestions/well-meaning abuse on this topic before proceeding. 2B may be one who can give insight on keyboard "feel"!

Cheers

TLB, I can’t offer any suggestions on these keyboards. Personally I’ve only owned keyboards with weighted keys which attempts to replicate a piano’s action. Having come from actual pianos I prefer weight under my fingers. Sorry I can’t be of help.

[2bornot2bop]

It seems like, with Yamaha and Casio, as you go toward $650, you get closer to a piano feel. E.g , Yamaha P-125.

Or, you may be able to score a thrift shop upright.

For $700 Yamaha has stuffed their P125 with weighted keys and all sorts of goodies. Years ago you couldn’t find weighted keys in a keyboard for anything less than $1800. Great value for the money.

[fep]

Here's the next progression and the backing track for you practicing pleasure is here (160bpm): Box

I've taken to starting my practice with running up and down the 1 7 3 5 voicing in a couple of keys, then going thru exercise 3 & 4, and then playing the progressions on pg 21 and 22.

[JazzinNY]

Progress report: working through the chord scale for each key, moving in fourths. Today I did Gb. Wow, Db and Gb are black key-a-paloozas, to an extent you don't realize on guitar.

The whole thing is dependent on how well you know the piano keys. Frustrating to still occasionally play a Db when wanted an Eb. Gotta just stick with it; it's much better than a few months ago. And as FEP says, sometimes you get happy accidents.

Ergonomics: some shapes, like C to Bb (left hand) were giving me strain, like golfer's elbow. I was keeping pinky towards me. Now I'm pushing it into the sliver of white, even or above the thumb. Much better.

I like to practice going up the scale just the outside notes (1, 7) and then just the inside notes (3, 5) and then put them together.

[fep]

Progress report: working through the chord scale for each key, moving in fourths. Today I did Gb. Wow, Db and Gb are black key-a-paloozas, to an extent you don't realize on guitar.

The whole thing is dependent on how well you know the piano keys. Frustrating to still occasionally play a Db when wanted an Eb. Gotta just stick with it; it's much better than a few months ago. And as FEP says, sometimes you get happy accidents.

Ergonomics: some shapes, like C to Bb (left hand) were giving me strain, like golfer's elbow. I was keeping pinky towards me. Now I'm pushing it into the sliver of white, even or above the thumb. Much better.

I like to practice going up the scale just the outside notes (1, 7) and then just the inside notes (3, 5) and then put them together.

Ha, I'm a golfer also, play once a week.

Going up the scale with the 1 7 3 5... He's given us three voicings, 1 7 3 5, 1 3 7 9, and 1 5 7 3 (see page 10). I feel I need to start practicing the 1 5 7 3, he does mention in the book that you may want to run that up the scales/keys also, just one sentence and it's easy to miss. Probably the 1 3 5 7 would be useful also.

Playing the progressions I sometimes feel like the jump resulting from a 1 7 3 5 to another 1 7 3 5 just doesn't sound great and it's useful to use other voicings.

For example, the progression on page 21, C-7 F7 Bbmaj7 Em7 F7 Bbmaj7 A7. C-7 F7 Bbmaj7 is fine just the way we are learning but after that I'm wanting to figure out smoother chord to chord movement.

[2bornot2bop]

[fep]

Is that from the Levine book?

[2bornot2bop]

Is that from the Levine book?

No, it's from Jamey Aerbersold's "ii-V-l" voicings, Volume 3. These are standard voicing's for both the right hand and left hand. Practice both hands independently or together.

[JazzinNY]

I propose that this be the Coker thread. If anyone wants to discuss Aebersold or Levine or anything else, make it a separate thread.

[fep]

I propose that this be the Coker thread. If anyone wants to discuss Aebersold or Levine or anything else, make it a separate thread.

Yeah but,

Those ii V I's are pretty much on topic in particular because Cocker keeps referring to the Abersold books and the ii V I book in particular.

Still, that stuff is all on the back burner for me as Cocker makes a good argument for limiting the number of voicings we take on at first. I'll try to find that explanation in the book a bit later.

[fep]

Pages 23 & 24

[2bornot2bop]

If you’re studying jazz piano the Aerbersold books are where it’s at. They’ve sold in the many hundreds of thousands. They’re a series of some 100 different books. The ii V l is the first to display jazz chords. The only thing better are Aebersold’s books which reveal his actual playing. Jamey plays sax, piano, bass, and a plethora of instruments.

[fep]

If you’re studying jazz piano the Aerbersold books are where it’s at. They’ve sold in the many hundreds of thousands. They’re a series of some 100 different books. The ii V l is the first to display jazz chords. The only thing better are Aebersold’s books which reveal his actual playing. Jamey plays sax, piano, bass, and a plethora of instruments.

Cocker wrote in this book, "Aerbersold comps extraordinarily well, better than most pianists"

I'm planning on taking the 1st pass through the book and then on the second pass through I'm going to add the Abersold books Cocker suggests.

I found this online Abersold streaming site that I'll use (no room for more music books on my shelves, for that matter I have another three boxes full of books).

https://streaming.jazzbooks.com/

[JazzinNY]

FEP: getting back to your postings from pages 21 to 24: they are lovely, but ...

If this is going to be a group, it needs to have several people going thru the book at about the same pace. So maybe start a new thread for each chunk.

I should be able to post something from about page 16, 17 this weekend or Monday. Two other guys have shown interest, but have keyboard issues.

Pages 20 to 30 have A LOT of material.

Then page 30 has a clear demarcation point, Blues and Rootless Voicings.

Just a suggestion ... it's your baby.

[fep]

FEP: getting back to your postings from pages 21 to 24: they are lovely, but ...

If this is going to be a group, it needs to have several people going thru the book at about the same pace. So maybe start a new thread for each chunk.

I should be able to post something from about page 16, 17 this weekend or Monday. Two other guys have shown interest, but have keyboard issues.

Pages 20 to 30 have A LOT of material.

Then page 30 has a clear demarcation point, Blues and Rootless Voicings.

Just a suggestion ... it's your baby.

Sounds good, Page 25 will be a good spot to start the next section and then page 30 for a 3rd section.

[2bornot2bop]

That’s why I posted those photos. Omit the bass note, lower the voicings an octave below middle C up to D a 9th above and you’ve got left hand rootless voicings including 9ths, b9, +9, +5, b5, and 13th’s. It’s nothing difficult for a jazz guitarist. Plus JA has a hip rhythm section to practice along with to get your timing down pat.

[JazzinNY]

I should be ready for Carnegie Hall soon.

[JazzinNY]

Or maybe the Blue Note ...

[fep]

Hey Alan, Great to see you posting.

Your D G F A choice, kind of a mysterious modern-sounding chord. But in the sense that "modern chords" these days go back aways, Debussy perhaps.

D F A is a Dm chord. I guess the G is an add 4, so Dm add4. Similar to the modal jazz tune, the names escaping me, that goes from Dm7sus4 and then modulates up a 1/2 step to Ebm7sus4. I think that voicing is D A C G A to Eb Bb Db Ab Bb.

I'm guessing your elbow pain will eventually go away, at least for all but long sessions. I hope so.

[JazzinNY]

Yes I was thinking it's a modern sound too. Doing just a few R-4 breaks up the repetitive R-7.

Apparently it's ulnar nerve pain, similar to golfer's elbow, underneath (whereas tennis elbow is on top). Just trying to manage it with moderation (guitar has brought it on too). I ordered a compression sleeve which supposedly may help.

[JazzinNY]

A quickie:

[fep]

Very cool Alan. This piano thing brings in a whole new set of discoveries.

[bleakanddivine]

For anyone out there without a keyboard, if you have a computer you can get into the world of keyboards very inexpensively. I bought the M Audio Keystation MK3 for $119 and I've seen it for $99. Added a $20 sustain pedal. I really like this setup.

I wanted to be able to play anywhere around the house without being tied to a computer so I've just bought a standalone 61-key Casio CTS300 for c£140. There are cheaper options CTS100 (c£90) and CTS200 (c£120) but the 300 has touch sensitive keys which I thought was probably worth paying a bit more for. They're pretty decent no-frills fairly portable options for beginners and they can act as MIDI controllers although there's no software included. So I'm just starting on the Coker book too.

[JazzinNY]

Yes, James with the leather jacket! Cool guy, also the only guy on YouTube who waves his hands around more than me.

Some of the Casio's have an amazing acoustic bass voice you can use as a split.

Anyway, welcome aboard ... Looks like we have a group.

[fep]

I wanted to be able to play anywhere around the house without being tied to a computer so I've just bought a standalone 61-key Casio CTS300 for c£140. There are cheaper options CTS100 (c£90) and CTS200 (c£120) but the 300 has touch sensitive keys which I thought was probably worth paying a bit more for. They're pretty decent no-frills fairly portable options for beginners and they can act as MIDI controllers although there's no software included. So I'm just starting on the Coker book too.

Glad you are on board. Yes, touch-sensitive is important, I wouldn't buy a keyboard that didn't have dynamics.

I do love using the midi and if you want to give it a go check out this piano software that is free, lots of free sound software in the Reaper Mania videos. He did a series of them. Note that all sounds used in the video are free plugins (software).

If you are an Apple user you can use GarageBand which is already loaded with sound plugins that you can use with your midi controller.