Marcin Patrzalek-Giant Steps-is it easy or not?

**kris** · 04-14-2021, 04:36 AM

There is a lot of controversy about Marcin's playing.
As you can see, Marcin has great stylistic interests and great technical ease.
Is a new style of playing guitar born?

**ruger9** · 04-14-2021, 07:11 AM

Good grief. Alright jazzers, let the flaming begin LOL

**mr. beaumont** · 04-14-2021, 10:24 AM

I will answer this with messages from the 3 different Mr. Beaumonts.

Friendly supportive Mr. Beaumont: Man, he's good. And such a great energy.

Hasn't had enough coffee yet Mr. Beaumont: That's one of the harshest tones I've ever heard. And he's not even improvising, he's bluffing his way through some of Trane's solo

Level headed, grounded Mr. Beaumont: I suppose it's not really "jazz," and I don't like the sound, but this guy has taken the "candyrat" style of playing solo acoustic guitar to the next level, and he's a great performer.

**grahambop** · 04-14-2021, 10:46 AM

I have to confess total ignorance about this ‘candyrat’ business, it has completely passed me by until now.

ok looked it up, I see it is a record label specialising in 2-handed tapping acoustic guitarists.

**kris** · 04-14-2021, 11:08 AM

I am glad that young Marcin tries different genres. He has energy and enthusiasm.
He makes an impression because he plays alone. Let him keep trying.
He copied the Coltrane solo chorus and so what, he did it in an unconventional way.
It is only 20 s.- He shows that "I can do it too."
I wonder how long it took him to prepare those 20 seconds.
Giant Steps - a very serious challenge.
Berklee College of music- good choice for him.

**citizenk74** · 04-14-2021, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I will answer this with messages from the 3 different Mr. Beaumonts.

Friendly supportive Mr. Beaumont: Man, he's good. And such a great energy.

Hasn't had enough coffee yet Mr. Beaumont: That's one of the harshest tones I've ever heard. And he's not even improvising, he's bluffing his way through some of Trane's solo

Level headed, grounded Mr. Beaumont: I suppose it's not really "jazz," and I don't like the sound, but this guy has taken the "candyrat" style of playing solo acoustic guitar to the next level, and he's a great performer.

Perfect. Bravo!

**starjasmine** · 04-14-2021, 12:58 PM

I hesitate to even participate in Monday-morning quarterbacking someone else's musical choices or efforts... but I have to agree with those who applaud Marcin's diverse interests and his technical achievements thus far.

But... is this style really "new"? EVH was tapping in the 80s and he stole it from flamenco (?) players. Vicki Genfan won the Guitar Player Superstar award in '08 with Atomic Reshuffle - that's 13 years ago!

Marcin is definitely interesting but he's not doing anything new. I find players like Vicki to be more "musical" for some reason I can't quite quantify, but quantity might be it: in her playing, technique always serves the music, not the other way around. I think that at this point Marcin might still place more emphasis on showing off technique than on using it to show off the music. It's like a dish in which the seasoning overshadows the ingredients. IMO, less percussion and more attention to melody/harmony might be more interesting.

On that same tack, Tommy Emmanuel never plays "tap/slap" style that I'm aware of but his performances are far more interesting and musical than anything I've heard from Marcin... yet :-)

Just my $0.02... thanks to all who have posted the interesting vids of Marcin. I admit I had never heard of him at all because I don't watch the freak ... er, talent... shows that saturate the airwaves these days.

Just in case you haven't seen Atomic Reshuffle, here it is:

And a beautiful, soulful, GROOVING, TONEful, performance by TE that is uber-impressive despite the fact that it requres no beating up the guitar top :-)

**grahambop** · 04-14-2021, 01:09 PM

The tapping thing is certainly not new:

**Lobomov** · 04-14-2021, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

The tapping thing is certainly not new:

So you're saying that Marcin has an old soul and is upholding a long standing tradition?

**grahambop** · 04-14-2021, 03:56 PM

lol, ‘semi-trolling’ alert.

Good luck to Marcin, I quite enjoy watching his technical ability even if the music is not entirely my cup of tea.

**Lobomov** · 04-14-2021, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

lol, ‘semi-trolling’ alert.

Good luck to Marcin, I quite enjoy watching his technical ability even if the music is not entirely my cup of tea.

Hehe ... But more seriously I kinda feel the same way, but he is an extremely talented 20 year old with amazing potential and I really look forward to hear him in 5-8 years time

**kris** · 04-14-2021, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

lol, ‘semi-trolling’ alert.

Good luck to Marcin, I quite enjoy watching his technical ability even if the music is not entirely my cup of tea.

‘semi-trolling’ alert.....?
I don't know what that means but I guess it's not nice.
Unless it's a joke.

**grahambop** · 04-14-2021, 04:28 PM

No it’s ok, all good-humoured...I remembered Lobomov said he does a bit of ‘semi-trolling’ occasionally - and I caught him at it!

**grahambop** · 04-14-2021, 04:43 PM

One thing that intrigues me with the tapping stuff is how well it works sound-wise on the acoustic guitar (including the chap in 1965).

I never really liked the electric guitar tappers like Stanley Jordan all that much, not because of the playing, but because of that thin ‘plinky’ sound it seems to make on the electric guitar.

There is a piece by Fernando Sor for classical guitar where one passage is played by left-hand tapping/fretting only. I have it on a CD and it sounds quite effective.

**rictroll** · 04-14-2021, 10:05 PM

Very cool and reflects a lot of work and talent. And not to take anything away...

But I am reminded that the complete jazz guitarist is required to know a boat load of songs, read charts, play a song in different keys, comp for others, play in different time signatures, play in different styles, and react to the playing of others. And in the old days, talk to customers while playing.

Just being a competent, working player takes a lot of work and talent, but may not get a lot clicks on the Tube.

**kris** · 04-15-2021, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by rictroll

Very cool and reflects a lot of work and talent. And not to take anything away...

But I am reminded that the complete jazz guitarist is required to know a boat load of songs, read charts, play a song in different keys, comp for others, play in different time signatures, play in different styles, and react to the playing of others. And in the old days, talk to customers while playing.

Just being a competent, working player takes a lot of work and talent, but may not get a lot clicks on the Tube.

The complete jazz guitarist ...
A large number of these complete jazz guitarists are watching youtube and even posting recordings,They probably dream of having a lot clicks on the Tube.Me too.

I do not like internet. It takes too much time.

**kris** · 04-15-2021, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

One thing that intrigues me with the tapping stuff is how well it works sound-wise on the acoustic guitar (including the chap in 1965).

I never really liked the electric guitar tappers like Stanley Jordan all that much, not because of the playing, but because of that thin ‘plinky’ sound it seems to make on the electric guitar.

There is a piece by Fernando Sor for classical guitar where one passage is played by left-hand tapping/fretting only. I have it on a CD and it sounds quite effective.

The tapping technique looks very interesting for the viewer. When used sparingly, it can also produce a musical effect.
I am tired of the sound when listening to the whole album, e.g. Stanley Jordan.
Perhaps here is the truth:
Tapping guitarists work more with the technique of performance than with the sound.
Or just tapping will never sound as good as standard guitar playing ...?

**Gabor** · 04-15-2021, 02:08 AM

Very articulate opinions.

This production perfectly fits to the recent race for the attraction of the audience, giving more and more stimulus, to prevent the audience getting bored, As a response todays audience getting more and more easily bored,

Most sensable in movies. Recently I tried to watch a movie, but in the first 20 minutes nothing else happened just a car chasing (computer modelled, with beautiful colors an lights) while within the car blood and injury close ups, eyeballs were flying, and dropped under the break pedal, so breaking was freakingly prohibbitted. All of this with 2-3 seconds camera changes. When the first non chasing scene came, a few men were talking, still the camera changed 2-3 seconds, and even within those 2-3 second periods was moving, or zooming in/out. Not by the Neverheard Pictures and Anonym Productions
(If anyone interested based on this teaser, PM me for the title :-)

It is really good to see there is an opposite trend too, almost all movies nominated to Golden Globe, Bafta or Academy Awards are worth to watch, which was not always the case.

Maybe I am saying the obvious, but it seems to be more circus than music. Talented? Sure. Lot of hard work, sure. Gives you stimulus, sure. Intellectual? I am not sure. Has content? Has story? Is it possible to listen dozen times, and discover new things?

**christianm77** · 04-15-2021, 03:13 AM

Giant Steps is a meme at this point though right?

**christianm77** · 04-15-2021, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

One thing that intrigues me with the tapping stuff is how well it works sound-wise on the acoustic guitar (including the chap in 1965).

I never really liked the electric guitar tappers like Stanley Jordan all that much, not because of the playing, but because of that thin ‘plinky’ sound it seems to make on the electric guitar.

There is a piece by Fernando Sor for classical guitar where one passage is played by left-hand tapping/fretting only. I have it on a CD and it sounds quite effective.

Yeah I like it. While I think the video Kris posted is impressive I wouldn’t describe as an approach to the guitar that’s new to me, although I don’t know if anyone has taken the time to play Trane’s solo in this style.

There’s quite a few acoustic tappers these days... Also Holdsworth sounded quite ... Holdsworthian on an acoustic.

I would say the fashion for many young touch style players has moved away from distorted tapping and more towards these kinds of pianistic soundscape things, which is nice. I think Yvette Young has a really nice tone.

Or of course any number of acoustic tappers. I think of Jon Gomm as the populariser here . He’s been around a few years. Also retuning the guitar as he plays and singing at the same time.

Dude above to my ears just needs to calm down and settle into himself a bit more, and he’ll sound terrific. Impressive guitarism, he needs to cook a little, and unlike the two videos I posted here I actually find him quite hard to listen to. Very much ‘young man noise’ haha. He’s pretty young though right? Probably just needs some miles on the clock.

**Lobomov** · 04-15-2021, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Gabor

Has content? Has story?

20 year olds don't usually have nuanced stories, it's usually just brash in your face singular points .. Max Circus, Max Anger, Max something else. Is it something that is a top priority to look for in young musicians?

Even if you look at the Beatles ... There is a world of difference from Love Me Do to A Day in the Life.

**christianm77** · 04-15-2021, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

20 year olds don't usually have nuanced stories, it's usually just brash in your face singular points .. Max Circus, Max Anger, Max something else. Is it something that is a top priority to look for in young musicians?

Even if you look at the Beatles ... There is a world of difference from Love Me Do to A Day in the Life.

I would say the top priority to look for in young musicians is musicality. This can be present very early in musicians.

What sort of things?

Dynamic contrast is a fairly cheap and reliable way of sounding musical. Antoine Boyer has totally killed this side of it haha. But it works! Hard with tapping.

also groove- which both Jon Gomm and Yvette above have dailed in...

Nothing wrong with youthful energy either, if it connects. Older people probably won’t relate to that in the same way, I guess!

**Lobomov** · 04-15-2021, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I would say the top priority to look for in young musicians is musicality. This can be present very early in musicians.

What sort of things?

Dynamic contrast is a fairly cheap and reliable way of sounding musical. Antoine Boyer has totally killed this side of it haha. But it works! Hard with tapping.

also groove- which both Jon Gomm and Yvette above have dailed in...

Nothing wrong with youthful energy either, if it connects. Older people probably won’t relate to that in the same way, I guess!

Let me refrase it then:
Are we sure that denying young musicians the right to just hammer home one argument without nuance is a good idea?

It's about finding yourself and going to the extreme being it unabashed shred or overblown anger is part of that process.

Antoine Boyer is excellent at playing in a style that appeases boomers

Marcin attempts to conquer the world.

One has 19.000 subscribers on youtube and the other has 460.000 subscribers.

But sure .. Seen thru the glasses of jg.be esthetics Antoine >>>>>>>>>> Marcin

It's going to be very interesting comparing those two in 5-10 years time

Marcin has ambition, which isn't necessarily a bad thing

**matcarsa** · 04-15-2021, 04:11 AM

I see he has posted a 19mn gig video on his YT channel 22h ago. I'll watch it later. So far I watched his instagram 30s videos. He is very good tzchnically for sure but to me, those are closer to commercial jingles than real music.

Envoyé de mon SM-G930F en utilisant Tapatalk

**grahambop** · 04-15-2021, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by kris

The tapping technique looks very interesting for the viewer. When used sparingly, it can also produce a musical effect.
I am tired of the sound when listening to the whole album, e.g. Stanley Jordan.
Perhaps here is the truth:
Tapping guitarists work more with the technique of performance than with the sound.
Or just tapping will never sound as good as standard guitar playing ...?

Isn’t the problem with tapping the fact that you are activating the string at the worst possible place, tone-wise? i.e. at the extreme end of the vibrating string length. Like plucking a guitar string right at the bridge.

I’m no expert on the physics involved, but I think it might be something to do with there being hardly any harmonics or overtones at that point, so the tone is very thin.

Also I think that’s why a clavichord sounds a bit ‘plinky’, the tangents (by stopping the string as well as activating it) strike the string at the end of the effective string length.