Prog rock and Genesis revisited

[339 in june]

I've always been a fan of Genesis.
Among Pink Floyd (from the 70's) and King Crimson, they are the very few groups that I've continuously listened to over the years.
Nice songs, nice atmospheres, nice (and new) tones. In a word, that's Music !

But the Jazz Side of me is wondering if they (Genesis) were able to improvise. I noticed on old YT videos that their performances and records were very, very similar, nearly note for note, even in the solos. Am I wrong ? (Not that it'd be a problem, but we're on a Jazz Forum, aren't we ?)

[A. Kingstone]

As a sucker for Box Sets I recently bought some of King Crimson's 70's stuff. Damn they we're good. John Wetton's bass sound, wow.

I still like Gentle Giant and Yes though never got with Genesis. Maybe time for another listen.

[christianm77]

I've always been a fan of Genesis.
Among Pink Floyd (from the 70's) and King Crimson, they are the very few groups that I've continuously listened to over the years.
Nice songs, nice atmospheres, nice (and new) tones. In a word, that's Music !

But the Jazz Side of me is wondering if they (Genesis) were able to improvise. I noticed on old YT videos that their performances and records were very, very similar, nearly note for note, even in the solos. Am I wrong ? (Not that it'd be a problem, but we're on a Jazz Forum, aren't we ?)

Judging from their interviews, they jammed a lot together during the writing process. Essentially, from what they were saying the songs were written this way before PG wrote the lyrics. After that very set in stone AFAIK.

Actually most groups I've worked with - even 'free improv' ensembles have an element of this. Usually solos are kept reasonably free in jazz groups, but even then things can become quite crystallised as time goes on.

[christianm77]

I agree Genesis featured Tony Banks up front much more than the other players, kind of the way Yes featured Steve Howe or Deep Purple Ritchie Blackmore.

This is either a good or bad thing, depending on your perspective. I read one reviewer who thought Banks as a multi-keyboard player used the wrong keyboard for every occasion. Personally, up until the end of the Gabriel era I think he was fantastic and had just the right touch for the band.

With the passage of 40 years I like his tuneful meanderings more now than I like the hard sound of Emerson, Lord, etc. from the same era. His use of Mellotrons was, along with King Crimson, the best in the business. And his synth programs were tasteful, not in your face.

Interestingly, the person who took synths to the next level in the 80's was...Peter Gabriel. His use of the Fairlight in the 80's was revolutionary.

Re' Rutherford, that guy practically owned the Taurus bass pedal.

Re' Collins--there's a drum sound named after him...In the Air Tonight, Intruder (PG), etc. What more need be said?

I think Hackett didn't quite get his due as a player. Maybe if he had stood up when he played, or put on some makeup or a cape or something..

Something else about Hackett is that he rarely was put centre stage in the way that a lot of the more blues rocky players were. Even when he was shredding his tits off (which was quite often) he kind of emerges from the texture and goes back into it. I really like that. No grandstanding.

Rock audiences are pretty cloth eared though. They need their attention drawn to something. They were probably staring at Pete Gabriel, dressed as a cactus or something, arhythmically playing a kick drum. Or whatever it was he did back then.

Hackett big set piece was Firth or Fifth, which was a very melodic piece, not a technical showcase.

[Doctor Jeff]

Yeah I'm scratching my head trying to think of rock guitarists who are idolized who sat while they played. Maybe Robert Fripp, but then he WAS King Crimson.

I saw King Crimson in 1982, and Fripp just sat on stage left playing his LP quietly but intensely with a Cheshire Cat grin, while Adrian Belew jumped around manically with his Strat. Belew, Levin and Bruford more than made up for Fripp's introspection.

[A. Kingstone]

Yeah I'm scratching my head trying to think of rock guitarists who are idolized who sat while they played. Maybe Robert Fripp, but then he WAS King Crimson.

I saw King Crimson in 1982, and Fripp just sat on stage left playing his LP quietly but intensely with a Cheshire Cat grin, while Adrian Belew jumped around manically with his Strat. Belew, Levin and Bruford more than made up for Fripp's introspection.

I saw them around the same time and my keyboardist friend was dejected to realize post show that the maniac front man was Belew, not Fripp.