Atonalism

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I can’t help enjoying the beauty of simple dissonances. I don’t know how the cowboy chord club does it. Imagine having never tasted beyond vanilla?

[tbeltrans]

I suppose it depends on how the music is played. Much of the atonal music I have heard just doesn't appeal to me because it seems to go nowhere and feels as if the player and/or composer are trying too hard to create "art". On the other hand, you seem to capture the sense of exploring whatever it is you are choosing to play and therefore are always going somewhere with it. That, I can enjoy listening to.

Tony

[Christian Miller]

Tonality does allow one to cheat at music rather, by imposing a convenient external structure.

it’s much harder to do something coherent without this - Schoenberg often resorted to texts in his free tonal era to write something longer, before settling on the 12 tone approach.

Anyway I liked this improvisation. Sounded pretty and calming! I’m not sure if I’d call it atonal.

I also felt it had a sense of form although I couldn’t put my finger on it.

[NSJ]

To me this is a very advanced concept, beyond my scope at this time. Most of us are trying to really play well, in a tonal sense, and that takes a lot of work.

I have the utmost respect for the free jazz musicians in Chicago I saw over the years, especially those in the AACM. It was such an experiential blast, a visceral shot of adrenaline, to hear all that energy unleashed.

It translates much better in the live experience

[Mark Kleinhaut]

To me this is a very advanced concept, beyond my scope at this time. Most of us are trying to really play well, in a tonal sense, and that takes a lot of work.

I have the utmost respect for the free jazz musicians in Chicago I saw over the years, especially those in the AACM. It was such an experiential blast, a visceral shot of adrenaline, to hear all that energy unleashed.

It translates much better in the live experience

Playing this way live is truly exhilarating. I mean, the rush when things come together can feel amazing, though often I would listen to recordings and feel, well, not much of anything. Unmoved. You really had to be there kind of thing. So, playing this way in my home studio it’s almost the opposite pattern where it’s pretty much a meditative thing while playing. When I finish and open my eyes I really feel pretty blank, but then when I listen back I hear so many things I sort of wished I could have composed. Of coursenn be I have my share of outtakes you’ll never hear

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Tonality does allow one to cheat at music rather, by imposing a convenient external structure.

it’s much harder to do something coherent without this - Schoenberg often resorted to texts in his free tonal era to write something longer, before settling on the 12 tone approach.

Anyway I liked this improvisation. Sounded pretty and calming! I’m not sure if I’d call it atonal.

I also felt it had a sense of form although I couldn’t put my finger on it.

i call it atonal simply because of the unsettled nature of any given momentary tonal center. I have no rules or planned framework, so any implication of form only comes from our unconscious perception of pattern, and that our brains tend to create them out of randomness even when there’s no pattern at all. I’ve no doubt that my brain is trying to organize patterns while I’m playing while the imp keep’s rearranging the deck chairs and knocking down the sandcastles.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I suppose it depends on how the music is played. Much of the atonal music I have heard just doesn't appeal to me because it seems to go nowhere and feels as if the player and/or composer are trying too hard to create "art". On the other hand, you seem to capture the sense of exploring whatever it is you are choosing to play and therefore are always going somewhere with it. That, I can enjoy listening to.

Tony

i agree with you. I really don’t like noise-music or things that grate, bang and clang. We used to joke that some of the horns sounded like a cat in a blender playing in counterpoint with a dog hit by a car. Never mind the drummers.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

[Rob MacKillop]

How condescending. Ignore it, Mark. The guy’s a conceited fool.

My tolerance for free playing has wavered over the decades, sometimes loving it, sometimes not so much, but I always give it a listen when I can. These days I prefer it emanating from a single player, as here, and then it comes very direct. I enjoyed it very much, though a whole album of it might be a stretch. Sometimes I prefer the hidden structures of a serial approach, as somehow I find it less disturbing when full on. But sometimes - and that might depend upon the player - a completely atonal and arhythmical approach is just what the doctor ordered.

Anyway, keep doing what you do, Mark!

[dfclark]

Well done! I especially like how you use two voices. I'll be experimenting with this in my studio today. :-)

I'm curious -- is this a daily exercise or just something you break out on occasion? If the former, any suggestions for development?

[rpjazzguitar]

I can’t help enjoying the beauty of simple dissonances. I don’t know how the cowboy chord club does it. Imagine having never tasted beyond vanilla?

I think that's great.

I also like a lot of three chord songs.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Well done! I especially like how you use two voices. I'll be experimenting with this in my studio today. :-)

I'm curious -- is this a daily exercise or just something you break out on occasion? If the former, any suggestions for development?

i do play like this all the time, though I’m not sure if you’re referring to the two-line or the Freeform. Developing this is no different than any other skill; break it down and go slowly. For me, it’s just as important to bring the free feeling to playing tunes. The counter point stuff is very modular and is many bits of vocabulary that can be strung together.

[ccroft]

WTF is that crap in post #8? I second Mr. MacKillop most whole heartedly!

I've always loved unsettled and non-'functional' music myself. My brother does cowboy guitar. I don't understand him anymore than he understands me!

Your playing is great! And I think your more organized stuff is great too.

[equenda]

First of all sorry for my English.
Everyone who play guitar ALONE in front of an audience (or a videocamera in this case), deserve a lot of RESPECT.

Atonal music is not my preferred kind of Musical Expression……but I have a GREAT RESPECT and DEEP ADMIRATION for the musicians who play this very demanding style.

One of the Master of Atonal/Free Jazz Guitar was Joe Diorio. His recordings with the pianist Wally Cirillo are amazing expressions of PURE MUSICAL ART.

Just 2 obeservations:
1) Your sound is really wonderful.
2) I’m sure that if you do a SMILE while you play your Music, nobody will hurt and the overall result will be better.

Love from Italy.

ettore

[Rob MacKillop]

2) I’ sure that if you do a SMILE while when you play your Music, nobody will hurt and the overall result will be better.

The last guy who said that to Miles Davis ended up in hospital...

[Mark Kleinhaut]

The last guy who said that to Miles Davis ended up in hospital...

This smiling thing has come up before for me. During a live gig once my response (in the middle of my solo mind you) was “put $100 in the tip jar and I’ll grin ear to ear for you”. But for videos like this it would feel completely contrived for me to smile when what I’m feeling while playing really doesn’t evoke this. How does one fake a smile and pull that off when the emotional state for playing is essentially about detachment and meditation?

[Rob MacKillop]

Perhaps wearing an Elmo costume would help?

[Mark Kleinhaut]

[Rob MacKillop]

[Peter C]

I listened only, no video, and heard engaging sounds in a secret language. Spectacular tone. Nothing else matters. Thank you.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I listened only, no video, and heard engaging sounds in a secret language. Spectacular tone. Nothing else matters. Thank you.

but I worked so damned hard on the video!!! The audio (the playing) was effortless.

[Peter C]

I listened again watching some of the video and it sounded exactly the same.

[Sam Sherry]

but I worked so damned hard on the video!!! The audio (the playing) was effortless.

"I play for free. I get paid to travel." -- Jerry Garcia

[ChazFromCali]

I suppose it depends on how the music is played. Much of the atonal music I have heard just doesn't appeal to me because it seems to go nowhere and feels as if the player and/or composer are trying too hard to create "art". On the other hand, you seem to capture the sense of exploring whatever it is you are choosing to play and therefore are always going somewhere with it. That, I can enjoy listening to.

Tony

That's the basic quality of "Atonal" music. Atonal is simply verbal shorthand for A-tonic. i.e. no tonic relationship. No V - I's re-inforcing a tonal center of gravity.

The best explanation I've read is in the first chapter of Tonality in Modern Music by Rudolf Reti (1958).

It's an excellent book.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

That's the basic quality of "Atonal" music. Atonal is simply verbal shorthand for A-tonic. i.e. no tonic relationship. No V - I's re-inforcing a tonal center of gravity.

The best explanation I've read is in the first chapter of Tonality in Modern Music by Rudolf Reti (1958).

It's an excellent book.

Exactly right. I practice unstructured free from atonalism. There’s of course highly structured varieties.