JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 91) - James

[ragman1]

Give it a chance. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it'll have just proved the point.

[grahambop]

I seem to be busy with various things these days, so I doubt I’d participate as much as I used to. Maybe if a tune really grabs me I might do the occasional one, but that’s about it.

[ragman1]

We still have to answer the question what we do from here on.

[Robespier]

I'm new here and I don't need much. Whatever happens, I'm in.

my 2c
I often have to play songs that I don't know. There is a need to get out of the comfort zone. I am not very happy about it, but it gives a lot of course. Many elements of this puzzle are repeated and at some point good automatisms come into play. From this point of view, playing a new song every week is ok.
On the other hand, digging in one tune also has its advantages. I don't know.

Nothing can replace the interaction between musicians when it's a good day, you know, but maybe some substitute would be found.
e.g. some form of taking an idea, motive, phrasing, articulation, (whatever) from the preceding player and developing it further. This would force the need to actively listen and go into it.

[ragman1]

Well, it looks as though there are still some takers... but we have John's post about very few contributors.

I did some research, as I said before, which might be of interest. Back in the day when it was new and hot I counted the following categories of musical contributors to the VJ threads.

• Contributed musically but since disappeared from the forum completely --- 10
• Still on the forum and contributing occasionally --- 3
• Still here on the forum but no longer contributing musically --- 7

All the disappeared people except a couple went before I took over. Triple's disappeared only recently. He may well return at some point.

A few, as above, are still around and do something from time to time, like grahambop and Alter. And quite a lot are still here on the forum but no longer contribute their clips at all.

The point is John's not wrong and we come back to the original question. Do we want to continue with the lack of contributors and not much energy? Or pack it in and think of something else? Wzp's become an occasional and I'm wondering how may people are left now.

I can see no one's going to make that decision except me! I need to know whether we get a new song on Friday.

I think I will put up the next tune on Friday and see how it goes. If it feels too dead then we'll stop because it'll be flogging a dead horse. And I'm not sure I'm not feeling that already.

But all comments welcome, of course.

[mr. beaumont]

Hey all,

First off all, kudos for keeping this going as long as it has! If you remember waaaay back when we started it, the idea was to keep playing new tunes in a jam session like way (solos, no need to work out the head or an arrangement, just play and see what happens!) during the height of Covid-19 when there was nothing much happening anywhere. So that's the only real reason it had more participation in the first year...it filled a void.

Things are better now, and folks are busier. I stopped contributing every week to pursue some personal projects, recording, shedding, and such. And I've kind of stayed with that, and I'm back in school in person, running my guitar club, coaching 3 teams...life is back There's even real jam sessions again!

Whatever direction it takes here, I support y'all, and I'll contribute when I can.

[John A.]

The point of my posing the question is that it was cool when there were lot of posts and I'm wondering if there's anything that could bring a few people back. I've actually been pretty busy music-wise all along (jam sessions once or twice a week, a weekly guitar duo gig, random projects and gigs here and there), but I've enjoyed doing this and hearing others and have tried to carve out time. If a change in "leadership" would help, I'd be happy to volunteer Kris to take over, since he's the one who seems to care most about this (only half joking here). Other than that, maybe a different direction in the way tunes are being picked?

Here's my thought on that front: Maybe we could just socialize a longer list up front, talk through what works and what doesn't, and thereby know in advance what's coming. We could do a poll and let the top 10(?) 20(?) vote getters be the list. That way those who want to prep the tunes somewhat more have a chance to do that. I know at least one person walked away because he felt he needed more than a week to get some of these tunes together.

[ragman1]

John, are you hankering for the good old days? We can't go back. I thought we all realised it was because the world was dying of plague and we were all locked down that Jeff started this. And, as it eased up, so inevitably did the contributors.

If someone else wants to take it over that's fine by me. It's not some great burden, I promise you. Finding a picture and doing the text takes about 10 minutes a week. It's really strenuous :-)

As for the tunes, I have a huge list all ready to go. I'll post them up and we can choose. That, of course, may involve much discussion and agreement or disagreement which will take up time...

I don't mind. I do it because it's here :-)

[starjasmine]

Sorry to lurk and not participate. FWIW I've been very busy IRL, not COVID related, and just not playing as much as I'd like, period. I really would like to participate at some point if this keeps going.
$0.02,
SJ

[kris]

The point of my posing the question is that it was cool when there were lot of posts and I'm wondering if there's anything that could bring a few people back. I've actually been pretty busy music-wise all along (jam sessions once or twice a week, a weekly guitar duo gig, random projects and gigs here and there), but I've enjoyed doing this and hearing others and have tried to carve out time. If a change in, I'd be happy to volunteer Kris to take over, since he's the one who seems to care most about this (only half joking here). Other than that, maybe a different direction in the way tunes are being picked?

Here's my thought on that front: Maybe we could just socialize a longer list up front, talk through what works and what doesn't, and thereby know in advance what's coming. We could do a poll and let the top 10(?) 20(?) vote getters be the list. That way those who want to prep the tunes somewhat more have a chance to do that. I know at least one person walked away because he felt he needed more than a week to get some of these tunes together.

If I had received such an offer a year ago ... I think I would have agreed.
Currently I'm working on a few projects and practicing a lot ... from 6am every day.
Thanks for the offert ... it was nice.
ps.
..."leadership" would can help or harm ...

[wzpgsr]

I think the “virtual jam” moniker needs to go. As Jeff points out, there was a specific reason he chose that name. Obviously we are not “jamming” with each other, and some folks seem to be REALLY hung up on reminding everyone else that this is not a jam, etc. We get it and I don’t think anyone needs to be reminded of that anymore.

If it will help, why don’t we change the name to reflect what it is we are actually doing, which is sharing recordings of a couple of choruses of jazz tunes written by jazz musicians? It’s basically “post yourself improvising over the tune of the week” with the caveat that the songs must be written by jazz musicians.

Other ideas for moving forward:

There is zero benefit to all when this group descends into personal pissing contests. I don’t mind the other kinds of side banter. I do mind the sniping and attitudes that show up now and then. Jeff’s other rule was “don’t be a dick.”

I also could do without a ton of posts of “actual” recordings of the tune—this famous player’s version, that famous player’s version. We all know how to search YouTube. Maybe the caller of the tune could share his one favorite version and a chart and let’s leave it at that.

[JDNC64]

Here is a version I recorded a few months ago
BAIB drums, precision Bass, Talyor Nylon string,
ES125

[John A.]

I wrote that I would practice, and I practiced.

11 takes. Each one is slightly different. Digging.

After about 2 hours of playing I play without thinking about chords and form.
I hear the changes. A good symptom I suppose.
But that's just the beginning, of course.

Great stuff. I can definitely hear your comfort increasing with each take. I dig the Riviera, too. Want one. But. I. Must. Not. Buy. More. Guitars

Here is a version I recorded a few months ago
BAIB drums, precision Bass, Talyor Nylon string,
ES125

That was great. Lots of cool ideas, really well developed, great chord soloing as well. Welcome aboard.

[Triple_Jazz]

I sensed a disturbance in the jazz force so I rushed right over and low and behold the creeping death seems to be taking the VJ! May it Rest In Peace

[kris]

Here is a version I recorded a few months ago
BAIB drums, precision Bass, Talyor Nylon string,
ES125

Very nice take!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I guess I’d like to hear from someone other than the three of us.

I don’t know how highly (or even if) my input is valued. But I thought I should weigh in here because I do enjoy the VJ and participate regularly. I’ll be back on line by the weekend and will think about how we might pump up the forum. I have 6 gigs from Sunday through the following Sunday, so I won’t be as active as usual until my schedule returns to my usual 2 or 3 gigs a week.

I try hard not to telegraph my travel plans on the internet for many reasons, most of them related to safety & security. It was my decision not to post this 3 weeks ago. I take off for home in about 18 hours, after 17 days abroad without a guitar. We were pursuing a family matter, and I simply couldn’t record VJ posts.

Many thanks to Wintermoon for playing my jazz dates and Dave Orban for covering my blues gigs.

[Reg]

Yea... I would suggest changing pretty much everything. What's the point, if it's just to play tunes, you can do that anytime you want.

If the point is to help your playing.... posting vids of jamming over prerecorded shitty backing tracks might not be the best direction.

Playing lots of new tunes doesn't help your playing, it just helps your skills of using what you already have. Sometimes it just reinforces lousy skills, help playing bad ideas better. LOL

So you end up with either.... working on understanding how to play jazz tunes or working on how to get your technical skills together.

Just from checking in once in a while.... I would suggest, working on tunes. Maybe put time or vids on how to Comp through tunes. There are many standard approaches with different harmonic references for how to play tunes.... and they are different. Which as you learn how to actually play in a jazz style, you'll see and be able to hear the differences.

Sometimes you only hear what your able to. So maybe playing a tune in different styles will help one learn to understand the possibilities of how to approach playing tunes through the trial and error process, as compared to getting technical through use of analysis and theory.

Which would end up being... putting more time on single tunes etc... Winters coming I'll have more time, I'll try and help, and I've hosted real jazz jams back when they were a thing. In the end... your playing is what it is to all ears.

[Lionelsax]

Lack of interaction, so I stopped.

[John A.]

Yea... I would suggest changing pretty much everything. What's the point, if it's just to play tunes, you can do that anytime you want.

The point (for me anyway) was to develop repertoire outside of GASB standards with some partners in crime rather than entirely on my own. ,

If the point is to help your playing.... posting vids of jamming over prerecorded shitty backing tracks might not be the best direction.

Agreed, if that's all a person is doing. It's not all I was doing, and these threads are a small fraction of the time I spend practicing, jamming, and, performing. I think learning tunes out of my usual wheelhouse has been helpful. I also made a point of proposing some tunes that I had never really learned right and used this as an opportunity to finally do that.

Playing lots of new tunes doesn't help your playing, it just helps your skills of using what you already have. Sometimes it just reinforces lousy skills, help playing bad ideas better.

That could be true for some people, but I find that making an effort to solve new material is helpful. I also think just the act of tackling something alongside others that you might not take on otherwise is a good way to get out of the doldrums if you're stuck in the same place.

So you end up with either.... working on understanding how to play jazz tunes or working on how to get your technical skills together.

Or both, if you organize yourself and budget your time.

Just from checking in once in a while.... I would suggest, working on tunes.

Exactly what these threads are about

Maybe put time or vids on how to Comp through tunes. There are many standard approaches with different harmonic references for how to play tunes.... and they are different. Which as you learn how to actually play in a jazz style, you'll see and be able to hear the differences.

Good suggestion

Sometimes you only hear what your able to. So maybe playing a tune in different styles will help one learn to understand the possibilities of how to approach playing tunes through the trial and error process, as compared to getting technical through use of analysis and theory.

Again, that was the main point of these so-called "jam" threads. Most of the people on this forum play GASB standards almost exclusively. These threads were explicitly about supplementing that with other kinds of tunes (e.g., hard bop, modal, Coltrane cycles, stuff that's harder to categorize such as Shorter or Hancock or Golson tunes)

Which would end up being... putting more time on single tunes etc... Winters coming I'll have more time, I'll try and help, and I've hosted real jazz jams back when they were a thing. In the end... your playing is what it is to all ears.

I'm sure we can all use all the help we can get.

[mr. beaumont]

Yea... I would suggest changing pretty much everything. What's the point, if it's just to play tunes, you can do that anytime you want.
.

I'm not really sure how many times the virtual jam needs to be explained, but again, it was originally a way to learn tunes outside of the GASB and interact with others at a time when the world was basically shut down.

It continued going because people enjoyed it.

We make a lot of things out to be much more serious than they are.

[kris]

The joy of playing is when you play in front of a real audience.
Nothing can replace it, even the most wonderful virtual jam.

[mr. beaumont]

Jesus, you try to create something nice and for two years you get told publicly and via dozens of PM's that its "not a real jam."

News flash: It was never supposed to be.

Forget it already. Argue about strings or pickups or what wood is best for playing Misty Barry Harris style on a Wednesday in November. I'm out.

[grahambop]

Well I enjoyed the challenge of doing some of the jam tunes, it made me learn tricky tunes like Wayne Shorter, Joe Henderson etc. (in a week!), tunes which I have been meaning to get into for ages but didn’t get round to before for some reason. Also made me put up loads more videos on my channel in a year than I had done for ages, which is cool.

So thanks to Jeff, I thought it was a great idea.

Ignore the critics!

[Lionelsax]

That's true, before participating to the Virtual Jam, I barely knew two standards on the guitar, now I play by heart more than 30 standards.
I don't play them with backing tracks, I play everything on my own.
So, thank you.

[grahambop]

Also we did a few Monk tunes, that was cool because it forced me to find some ways to navigate those better. I had not really tackled many of his tunes properly before, I learned some good stuff there.