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You organize your solo well.
Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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05-10-2022 12:48 AM
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I am most satisfied with this version because it has my personal sound-nylons ... :-)
Box
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Steely Dan's 'Rikki Don't Lose that Number' is probably the best-known one. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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My last modern take with hybrid Stratocaster:
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Thought I caught a quote of the opening phrase of 'Round Midnight. Originally Posted by kris
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Maybe ... I wasn't analyzing my solo-playing how I felt. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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wzpgsr -
Here you are then, last blast with twiddles. Some twiddles, anyway. It's in D minor for a change and quite long because it's addictive :-)
To be honest, I don't really hear this tune as 'jazzy', I hear it Spanish so that's how it comes out.
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The wiki page says: "According to Silver, the song was 'in part inspired by our Brazilian trip. We got the Brazilian rhythm for this tune from that trip, and the melodic line was inspired by some very old Cape Verdean Portuguese folk music.'" I hear it as a bossa nova rhythmically, with pretty much straight up blues vocabulary. All in all, it seems entirely of a piece with the rest of the Silver/Blakey/Messengers scene it emerged from to me. I don't really hear it as Spanish. I mean, sure, Spanish, Portuguese, and African influences are baked into hard bop and Latin jazz, but I tend to think of Spanish as phrygian-mode based, and I don't really hear that in Song for My Father. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Aren't the (atrocious) words somebody wrote for this tune something like "I wrote a song for my father blah blah blah...after seeing...BRA-ZIL!" Originally Posted by John A.
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Those post hoc jazz lyrics are almost always terrible. Unless it's vocalese. That makes me smile every time—not always in a good way. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I don't remember ever hearing a vocal version. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Each tune can be played in gipsy or spanish style.
It all depends on the concept of the performer-guitarist.
It would have to be very thoughtful and properly arranged.
For example, you could make this song in the style of the band 'Gipsy King'...good energy.
...then the father will be happy ...
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That's a short paraphrase from HS's 2006 autobiography, "Let's Get to the Nitty Gritty". Here's the part on SFMF from which that was excerpted: Originally Posted by John A.
[FIRST PARAGRAPH IS FROM THE INTRO TO AN NPR REVIEW OF THIS BOOK] "Since its release in 1965, pianist Horace Silver's 'Song for My Father' and the celebrated album that shares its name have withstood the test of time and are among the most recognizable jazz songs today. A photo of Silver's father, born around 1900 as John Tavares Silva on the Cape Verdean island of Maio, is featured as the cover art of the Blue Note album.'My mother was of Irish and Negro descent, my father of Portuguese origin', Silver explains in the liner notes."
" 'Believe me, Carnival provided much excitement...After returning home to New York from my visit with Sergio and (drummer) Dom Um, I was haunted by the bossa nova rhythm I had heard in Brazil. So I said to myself, 'I'm going to try to write a song using that rhythmic concept.' I sat down at the piano for a few hours and came up with a new song using the bossa nova rhythm. However, the melody didn't sound Brazilian to me; it sounded more like some of the old Cape Verdean melodies my dad had played. Dad had always wanted me to take some of the old Cape Verdean songs and do jazz interpretations of them. This didn't appeal to me, but when I realized I had written a new song with a Brazilian rhythmic concept and a Cape Verdean melodic concept, I immediately thought about dedicating the song to Dad. So I titled it 'Song for My Father'."
And here's the story behind the vocal version:
"Later, songwriter/vocalist Ellen May Shashoyan adapted the popular instrumental that avant-garde jazz vocalist Leon Thomas featured on his debut album Spirits Known and Unknown in 1969. Ironically, while you may find Shashoyyan on the credits for various versions of 'Song For My Father,' she did not record the lyricized jazz standard until 1980 -- 30 [sic] years after Thomas' sang her rendition of the tune." [I don't know where that 30 year figure came from - it was only 11 years from 1969 to 1980.]
Here's Thomas' version:
And here's Shashoyan's:
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Nice, though it could be a bit longer. Is that a new 175? The reason you're selling off other guitars? Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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I don't mean literally Spanish. I know the history of the tune. I meant that repeated Am - G - F - E run that typifies Flamenco and all that. As for using Phrygian I didn't. Or, if I did, it wasn't intentional. For one thing, in the Andalusian cadence the descending chords aren't dominants. Originally Posted by John A.
As for the blues sound over bossa rhythms, I have my ideas about that. Charlie Byrd used to use them to excess and I always had the feeling that he did it as a quick get-round. It's interesting that Joe Pass, on the other hand, never did. Try any bossa recording by him and you'll never hear it being used as a blues vehicle.
In any case, I had nothing of this in my head when I was doing it, I just played what I felt/heard internally. Probably rather boring to anybody else :-)
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Try this. I mean, really.
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Charlie Byrd played a classical guitar ... I didn't hear Joe Pass record anything on a classical guitar.
Classical guitar is a very difficult instrument to play jazz.
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I think you paraphrase a little :-) Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
'According to Silver, the song was "in part inspired by our Brazilian trip. We got the Brazilian rhythm for this tune from that trip, and the melodic line was inspired by some very old Cape Verdean old Portuguese folk music."
Song for My Father (composition) - Wikipedia
On the Wiki page it doesn't say who wrote the lyrics but it was probably Ellen May Shashoyan. Full history here.
The Story Behind Horace Silver'''s '''Song for My Father''' | WRTI
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Joe Pass certainly used nylon strings. And I doubt if it would have been the slightest problem for him. Originally Posted by kris
Besides, that has nothing to do with Charlie Byrd playing blues stuff over bossa nova.
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It also typifies "Is You Is or Is you Ain't My Baby", "Topsy", "Minnie the Moocher". etc, so I don't hear that as particularly Spanish, either. Originally Posted by ragman1
Not sure what that has to do with anything or what "blues vehicle" means exactly, but I hear tons of blues vocabulary in Pass's bossa tunes (e.g., different versions of Wave, Corcovado on the album he did with Paulinho da Costa) Originally Posted by ragman1
You hear and feel what you hear and feel. I don't dispute that. I'm just saying that I don't hear my own (maybe cliched) sense of a "Spanish" sound in the tune, either as a composition or in the way it's usually played. "Latin" in the sense of Afro-Caribbean/Brazilian (and I gues Cap Verde) sense, yes, though. Originally Posted by ragman1
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I meant using a bossa as a vehicle for the blues. In other words using a non-blues song to play blues licks and lines over. In other words mixing styles, inappropriately in my view, but obviously not in everybody's. Originally Posted by John A.
You mean Tudo Bem. I know that album but it's been some time since I listened to it. I've just listened now to Corcovado and Wave (also Tears which comes in between them) and I hear no blues. Your ears must be different to mine!I hear tons of blues vocabulary in Pass's bossa tunes (e.g., different versions of Wave, Corcovado on the album he did with Paulinho da Costa)
I was expecting him to play the blue note Ab (b5) as part of the D minor run that comes at the end of each section (F D C Ab G F G) but he didn't. Or, if he did, it's very fast and my ear at no time said 'he's playing blues'.
Wave, apparently, is based on some kind of blues idea (if I recall correctly) but he doesn't. Even if he did it's part of the melody so fair enough. In turn, that would give him licence to be bluesy when soloing, but he didn't.
I think you're definitely hearing things that aren't there! However, I'll concede the piano did play some bluesy lines but that's not the issue. Those players are all Brazilian:
Paulinho da Costa / percussion
Octavio Bailly, Jr. / bass
Oscar Castro-Neves / guitar
Oscar Castro-Neves / drums
except... guess what... Don Grusin (brother of Dave) on keyboards. Fancy that, an American jazz player.
Applies to everybody. Even deaf people, I expect.You hear and feel what you hear and feel. I don't dispute that.
Okay, maybe Spanish is the wrong word, but anything that goes Fm - Eb - Db - C to me spells Spanish. Or Spanish-y. Or any other similarity you can name. Including South America.I don't hear my own (maybe cliched) sense of a "Spanish" sound in the tune, either as a composition or in the way it's usually played. "Latin" in the sense of Afro-Caribbean/Brazilian (and I gues Cap Verde) sense, yes, though.
You're seriously telling me that Fm - Eb - Db - C doesn't sound Spanish-y to you? I think the modern internet expression is LOL!
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See post 38 in this thread for more info. Originally Posted by ragman1
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I thought the tune deserved a swing take too:
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I’ve been meaning to downsize and consolidate for a while—consider this 175 a mere bump in the road on the way to fewer guitars. I made the mistake of trying a local one which was too pricey and found this one on a late night web surfing session at a reputable dealer. I’ve read a lot of mixed reviews of 175s from this era (2006), but I had a 24 hour evaluation period during which time a luthier friend gave it a solid once-over and a thumbs up. It sounds darker and more “vintage” to my ear than a lot of other more recent 175s I have heard, so I’m feeling (or maybe rationalizing) that I kind of lucked out. Originally Posted by John A.
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