JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 63) - Afro Blue

[ragman1]

Another from wzpgsr.

[wzpgsr]

Funny one, this...

I should have known better than to call a 3/4 tune—nothing but self-flagellation ahead for me the next several days. Nice job rags.

[ragman1]

Oh, it was very late at night, trust me


I have a feeling flagellation in 3/4 would be quite difficult

[kris]

Ragman 1,
You made a 12-bar minor blues out of this tune.
Afro Blue is not a minor 'Afro Blues'.
The original form of the piece has 16 bars and this is its strength.
Characteristic for this composition are the divisions of the dotted quarter note plus the dotted quarter note into 3/4.
I have been playing this piece for over 40 years and I would not have the courage to mix it up in form.

[ragman1]

Ragman 1,
You made a 12-bar minor blues out of this tune.
Afro Blue is not a minor 'Afro Blues'.
The original form of the piece has 16 bars and this is its strength.
Characteristic for this composition are the divisions of the dotted quarter note plus the dotted quarter note into 3/4.
I have been playing this piece for over 40 years and I would not have the courage to mix it up in form.

[Christian Miller]

[John A.]

Ragman 1,
You made a 12-bar minor blues out of this tune.
Afro Blue is not a minor 'Afro Blues'.
The original form of the piece has 16 bars and this is its strength.
Characteristic for this composition are the divisions of the dotted quarter note plus the dotted quarter note into 3/4.
I have been playing this piece for over 40 years and I would not have the courage to mix it up in form.

Fuck off.

What the hell is the matter with both of you? You should never be conducting yourselves this way on public threads. Both of you, use PM's for this kind of BS.

[kris]

Fuck off.

Ok.
I always improvised on a 16-bar form.
Thank you for writing back so kindly.

[kris]

What the hell is the matter with both of you? You should never be conducting yourselves this way on public threads. Both of you, use PM's for this kind of BS.

John,
I was playing this song as the 16th form for a jam session and I got used to it.
But you can play it like a minor blues ... I also learned something.
Maybe I was listening to Coltrane version too much.
Everything is clear and no problem.
All the best
Kris
ps.
I dream that there would be only such small problems in the world.

[grahambop]

I think Mongo Santamaria did the solos on a 24-bar minor blues form, at least that's what it sounds like to me.

[kris]

I think Mongo Santamaria did the solos on a 24-bar minor blues form, at least that's what it sounds like to me.

Thanks Grahambop,
When I started playing Afro Blue, there was no internet in the world yet and I didn't have the opportunity to listen to the original version.
Best
Kris

[wzpgsr]

John,
I was playing this song as the 16th form for a jam session and I got used to it.
But you can play it like a minor blues ... I also learned something.

It’s not that you “can”. The solo section on the composer’s literal original recorded version is a minor blues. I appreciate the sort of implied apology here, but also suspect that you had other motives when you popped into this thread specifically to call out ragman. I’m also not condoning rag’s response—damn guys, no one else in these threads is interested in your mutual sniping and counter-sniping.

[kris]

It’s not that you “can”. The solo section on the composer’s literal original recorded version is a minor blues. I appreciate the sort of implied apology here, but also suspect that you had other motives when you popped into this thread specifically to call out ragman. I’m also not condoning rag’s response—damn guys, no one else in these threads is interested in your mutual sniping and counter-sniping.

I had no other motives ... I just grew up on a non-original composing recording.
Thanks to Grahambop, I got to know the original.No problem at all.
Jazzingly
Kris
ps
There is a note in the Real Book...or minor blues.
I played this tune by ear and didn't look at the Real Book.

[John A.]

John,
I was playing this song as the 16th form for a jam session and I got used to it.
But you can play it like a minor blues ... I also learned something.
Maybe I was listening to Coltrane version too much.
Everything is clear and no problem.
All the best
Kris
ps.
I dream that there would be only such small problems in the world.

Kris, whether you were right or wrong in saying that the form is not a blues is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the way you said it (which comes off as accusing ragman of not knowing what he's doing and playing the song incorrectly) and the way ragman replied (which needs no explanation). It's petty rudeness on both of your parts. The rest of us don't need this pollution. However, you are a truly excellent and knowledgeable player, and I for one would be very glad to hear your musical contributions.

[wzpgsr]

Kris, whether you were right or wrong in saying that the form is not a blues is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the way you said it (which comes off as accusing ragman of not knowing what he's doing and playing the song incorrectly) and the way ragman replied (which needs no explanation). It's petty rudeness on both of your parts. The rest of us don't need this pollution. However, you are a truly excellent and knowledgeable player, and I for one would be very glad to hear your musical contributions.

Yes, to paraphrase Frank Zappa, let's all shut up and play our guitars.

[kris]

Kris, whether you were right or wrong in saying that the form is not a blues is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the way you said it (which comes off as accusing ragman of not knowing what he's doing and playing the song incorrectly) and the way ragman replied (which needs no explanation). It's petty rudeness on both of your parts. The rest of us don't need this pollution. However, you are a truly excellent and knowledgeable player, and I for one would be very glad to hear your musical contributions.

The truth is they say I would write this to anyone who plays AF in minor blues. Never heard the original version before.
Ragman's version is based on the original..it is ok.
I'm sorry for the confusion it is my fault.
I was too confident writing the comment.
I'm learning jazz all the time.
I really like the McCoy Tyner version...:

[ragman1]

no one else in these threads is interested

Oh, if only that were true. If it was, there'd only be the original post and the response. As it is, everybody's incredibly interested... which is why it continues on down the page :-)

[ragman1]

I won't post Derek Truck's version because it's rather loud

[Triple_Jazz]

[kris]

Yes, to paraphrase Frank Zappa, let's all shut up and play our guitars.

It's normal for me because I practice the guitars for 10 hours every day.

[grahambop]

If nothing else, I think it is a useful discussion to decide what form to use for the solos. For years I was only familiar with the Coltrane (Live at Birdland) version, which basically treats it as modal F minor.

Later I got the Doug Raney version which uses the minor blues form. So it’s interesting to see how the original went. Also probably explains why the old Real Book covers both options.

Short answer is probably do whatever you like with it!

[grahambop]

Or do it as solo acoustic guitar.

[kris]

If nothing else, I think it is a useful discussion to decide what form to use for the solos. For years I was only familiar with the Coltrane (Live at Birdland) version, which basically treats it as modal F minor.

Later I got the Doug Raney version which uses the minor blues form. So it’s interesting to see how the original went. Also probably explains why the old Real Book covers both options.

Short answer is probably do whatever you like with it!

I am very much related to the Coltrane version - I love it .
In my opinion, you can make very nice tensions in the F-minor modal.
This is how I hear it ...
Everyone can play as they like, and it's finally a jam session.
It just needs to be agreed with the rhythm section.
Best
Kris

[kris]

Or do it as solo acoustic guitar.

I have this CD.
This is a great solo version!

[ragman1]

If nothing else, I think it is a useful discussion to decide what form to use for the solos. For years I was only familiar with the Coltrane (Live at Birdland) version, which basically treats it as modal F minor.

Later I got the Doug Raney version which uses the minor blues form. So it’s interesting to see how the original went. Also probably explains why the old Real Book covers both options.

Short answer is probably do whatever you like with it!

Absolutely. I'd no idea what to do with it even though I'd listened to any number of versions. According to that RB chart there's the basic theme, an 8-bar stretch of Fm, then the second variation. All pretty confusing.

I was going to ask everyone what they thought but in the end I just did what the lead sheet said. And I thought the minor blues sounded more interesting as a solo (especially on my own) than endless bars of Fm (actually I did it in Gm). I'm aware that my version's pretty lame, the notes drag, but, as I said, it really was the middle of the night.

So I'm absolutely in agreement with you. Let's sort out how it goes or just do it as we feel.

By the way, I spent quite a long time trying to work out a decent 2:3 polyrhythm till I gave up and just did it in 6/8. What are your thoughts on that? Apart from shove on a backing track!

(I haven't heard the Doug Raney version yet, just going to do it)