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1) sure
Originally Posted by kris
2) so what?
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01-17-2022 12:41 PM
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the argument that I would construct is - young players exist in a completely different social and technological world to the one older players inhabited in their youth. The difference are well covered elsewhere, but There are fewer performance opportunities, jazz education is more or less ubiquitous, there is a tighter relation between music edu and performance opportunities and culturally less interest in the performance of Tin Pan Alley standards from even older people, not to mention the internet etc etc etc Originally Posted by jameslovestal
As a result of course they play different.
Where I would disagree with the OP is to say this change in the way younger players play reflects societal and technological shifts they have no influence over. Why shouldn’t they play different? Also is this a bad thing? Well yes if you don’t happen to like it, but why should they care?
But could say the same about Liszt v Mozart.
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^Wot Christian said. (Saves me a lot of typing and thinking)
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Music is sound interpreted by people as music.
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Music (in general) is an art form whose medium is sound
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
So What:
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Wow, Kris,
You gave me a perfect example of what I'm describing. In "Autumn in NY/Kreisberg," "Haitian Ballad/Lund," and "Peace/Lund," they cannot play a simple ballad without showcasing their technical improvisations. In Autumn," Kreisberg is chomping at the bit to leave the ballad and finally at 3:08 begins his technical show. In "Haitian Ballad," Lund begins his charge at 4:18. And, finally, in "Peace," he leaves the ballad mode completely for his up-tempo improvs. This IS my problem with younger players. It's as if they don't showcase their technical speed, they feel invalidated as musicians. Let's compare these 3 pieces to a ballad by Chet Baker/Live in Tokyo--"Almost Blue" and the beautiful piano by Harold Danko.
Marinero
Last edited by Marinero; 01-17-2022 at 01:44 PM. Reason: spelling
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music does not require melody, harmony or fixed rhythm
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what is art? Originally Posted by SoftwareGuy
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Hi Marinero, Originally Posted by Marinero
I am a big fun of Chet Baker.
I can listen to his music for hours and I am never bored with his playing.
He was a brilliant performer of jazz ballads.
In fact, I'm more interested in how Chet Baker plays than how many young people play.
Best
Kris
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So What? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Some people love old wine, others prefer new wine.
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When a sound is interesting by itself, its music. When it's boring - its not. Hm.
So, there is no boring music. It is just not music if boring
When trying to define what music is, if that definition would match spoken language, then it's you know.. not accurate enough.
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If you listen to music for several hours a day, you may find boring productions ... Originally Posted by emanresu
When a sound is interesting by itself, its music. When it's boring - its not. Hm.
So, there is no boring music. It is just not music if boring
When trying to define what music is, if that definition would match spoken language, then it's you know.. not accurate enough.
I don't know about the others, but I do.
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The old and experienced complain about the young; and the young and hopeful complain about the old; bitching and moaning are humanity's comfort zone, it seems. It is in the willingness and sometimes even the ability to make positive changes, however small, in our shared circumstances that allows us to do a bit of good for one and all. Like creating and performing music that makes a person feel a little better, if only for a while, and a tad less apt to act out against their fellow sufferers. A little peace, love, and understanding once in a while is not a bad thing. Originally Posted by Lobomov
This is actually spot on post. Music is about connecting people and supporting them .. For example the social climate of 1977 brought punk out into the absolute mainstream as everyone was frustrated. The sadness and melancholy of new wave followed as the cold war and fear of nuclear energy dominated the earliest 80s etc ..
But seeing music in the context of the time it belongs to .. no no .. we don't do that here ... We just define whatever was popular while we where in our teens or twenties as brilliant and circle jerk. LOL .. talk about having no empathy towards your fellow man
You'd think people would have better to do than to complaint about the young of today .. but apparently not? .... Oh well .. Soon they'll be dead and forgotten, so I support whatever brings them a bit of joy in the last decade or two of their life.
Have at it guys .. Wank away ... Whatever makes you happy!
Music can do that, if we let it. Peace, if you want it.
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Someone give me a gig so I can complain about it
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I always said Marinero tastes very good.
And this is my cherry:
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Doesn’t ‘younger musicians’ basically mean ‘alive musicians’?
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I agree about the playing of ballads. Decades ago when I first got into jazz it was the-faster-the-better. E.g. I would make my own cassette tapes and only tape the fast songs. I then meet a professional jazz bass player and he schooled me about what was musical.
I still like really swinging music but I mostly tend to listen to medium tempo music and ballads.
Here is a ballet by someone that could do both in spades.
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listening to some young jazz guitarists, I really wondered if anyone ever told them what music is? Because pretty much everything they play is slow, meditative, stare out at the fjord stuff. You ever hear a guy play slow and tastefully then when he has to speed it up and play Giant Steps at 350 BPM he suddenly sounds like crap? ... Originally Posted by kris
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16th notes at quarter >= 150 Originally Posted by Lobomov
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Whatever it is, sure ain’t much agreement here on what it might be.
That to me is pretty interesting in itself.
Maybe it’s just imaginary… a chimera.
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Maybe more of a moving target, or, like so many things, contextual: "the soundtrack of our lives" may be hints at its multifaceted nature; object of contemplation, occasion for action (dance in all its forms), soul-stirrer and wound healer, the focus of an idle moment or the passion of a lifetime. It's all there. Pinning it down like a dead butterfly in a glass case might not be all that useful to its enjoyment. Music is best when you are playing it, IMHO. "Players only love you when they're playing" sez a woman who should know.... Originally Posted by jazzkritter
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"Music is The Healing Force of the Universe". Except in online music forums :-)
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I listen to music every day and the forum disturbs me. Originally Posted by ccroft
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Look, I never said ALL young jazz players fit into that category. I have noticed, however, a preponderance (I'll use that word) of young players who fit into the category of my OP.
And no, I'm not going to mention any names because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings like that on social media. I'm not here trying to hurt or embarrass anyone, just discussing music, that's all.
Music = the notes and the spaces between the notes.
Notes + spaces between the notes = music
I stand by that definition of music. I'm just pointing out the importance of the space component because it's just as important as the notes themselves, and that component of music doesn't get discussed enough, so I'm bringing it up.
IMO, you need to be able to play fast too if you want to be a really good player, but you also need to be able to sound great at slow tempos where you've got to leave more space and maybe even play simpler stuff. You should still be able to sound great doing that. Great note selection, great phrasing, and a whole lotta feeling in the improv.
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