Using The Jazz Minor Scale

[ksjazzguitar]

No, paper credentials mean nothing to me. Fallacy ad verecundiam is no better than any other fallacy.

Apparently the only credential you accept is "agreeing with Aristotle."

That's it. Your once sentence limit has been reached....The best advice I can offer you is - don't waste time responding to my posts.

What a cowardly way to avoid anyone who disagrees with you. Make long uninformed posts and then throw a hissy fit and refuse to read anything that disagrees.

I guess that's one way to avoid accepting that your arguments have come to a dead end.

Wow. The internet.

Peace,
Kevin

[Jazzyteach65]

I thought we come here to celebrate the music, the precious artform o jazz guitar and each other's unique perspective, not fight!

Remember: theory is just what it says: "theory." There is no right or wrong theory, that's why it's called what it is! Theory is so limiting and finite. Remember that it's JUST "WESTERN THEORY" we are talking about. Arab, African, East Asian and Hindustani Musics all have theories TOTALLY diferent than "ours."

[merseybeat]

Well said JT I have backed off a little because of the same! Most of the musicians I know are the creative ones! Make thing happen! you know! then there's the bedroom rejects who snipe at us! I am learning and there always something more! Just cause I don't know one particular aspect doesn't mean I don't know something that someone else doesn't know if that makes any sense!

That said there is enough positive vibe on this site to advance my playing 10 fold! I have learnt so much here that I occasionally buy the Site don a beer!

Eddie

[Aristotle]

And along the lines of what Jazzy and Mersey are saying, I believe the motive behind the posts (in the improv form) is or should be how to benefit: 1) note selection, phrasing...melody-making in general, or 2) how to gear rehearsal to achieve better achieve #1.

When I questioned this so-called "classical" minor here, it followed two jazzers implying that it has no application in jazz. Agreed! You are not going to change out of this tonality, just because the direction of the melody changes. For jazzers, practicing that split-scale would be mostly a waste of time vs. mastering the melodic.

I just wish jazzers would stop implying it has significant application in classical, because no one can name a single piece that conforms to the logic. Practicing it for years, as many classical players have done with the Segovia scales is a waste of time. Later on, if they take up jazz, they are going to wish they had "improvised" the Segovia scales by playing the melodic both ascending and descending.

[Jazzyteach65]

Well said JT I have backed off a little because of the same! Most of the musicians I know are the creative ones! Make thing happen! you know! then there's the bedroom rejects who snipe at us! I am learning and there always something more! Just cause I don't know one particular aspect doesn't mean I don't know something that someone else doesn't know if that makes any sense!

That said there is enough positive vibe on this site to advance my playing 10 fold! I have learnt so much here that I occasionally buy the Site don a beer!

Eddie

haha!

[ksjazzguitar]

Remember: theory is just what it says: "theory." There is no right or wrong theory, that's why it's called what it is! Theory is so limiting and finite. Remember that it's JUST "WESTERN THEORY" we are talking about. Arab, African, East Asian and Hindustani Musics all have theories TOTALLY diferent than "ours."

True, but those weren't what we were talking about.

When I questioned this so-called "classical" minor here, it followed two jazzers implying that it has no application in jazz.

But know you're trying to change the topic that you were discussing with me. You weren't saying that the mel min is used differently in jazz (obvious) but were challenging its definition and use in classical (based on ignorance and misunderstanding), twisting definitions and distorting information along the way. You couldn't win that argument so now you're curling up in a ball and playing victim.

Fellas, misinformation is the enemy. The facts are not determined by a popularity contest (this isn't Yahoo Answers.) The facts are the facts. The problem is that on the internet it is nearly impossible to tell who knows what. So you try and keep track of who seems to know what they're talking about. The problem is that I see so many people jumping to the defense of the the anti-theory guerrilla terrorists because they seem "nicer." Of course they seem "nicer" - they're just having fun picking on the people with an actual background in the subject and creating disinformation. They really don't care what people truly learn. Yes, the class clown is more fun than the professor, but from whom will you learn more?

Peace,
Kevin

[Jazzyteach65]

Keep in mind that at the end of the proverbial "day," YOU are the one that dictates how the notes/dissonant and consonant notes "behave." No theory or study can EVER teach you that!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

When I questioned this so-called "classical" minor here, it followed two jazzers implying that it has no application in jazz. Agreed! You are not going to change out of this tonality, just because the direction of the melody changes. For jazzers, practicing that split-scale would be mostly a waste of time vs. mastering the melodic.

My two bits: in jazz (and probably classical, too, but I'm afraid to go there because you guys know so much more than I do), minor tonality seems more flexible in note selection, as opposed to major tonality: I pick and choose the minor/major 6th/7th.

Example: In D minor, if I'm targeting the note A in a line, I'd play:

A Bb A G ... rather than A Bnat A G ...

The Bb as an upper neighbor there pulls back to A better than Bnat does.

Same in the other direction: If I'm targeting C, I'd play:

C Bnat C D ... rather than C Bb C D ...

And over an A dom chord, I'd just hear C# as the leading tone, Cnat as the #9, B as the natural 9 and Bb as the b9; each has their own color.

Does that make any sense? Maybe the classical melodic minor scale is an effort to square the circle: to combine horizontal lines (avoid aug2 in scalar lines) and harmony (dominant chord goes here). Woops, I said too much.