JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 9) - Dolphin Dance

[John A.]

Yea... have always loved this tune. here's an old vid I posted 10 years ago.... a little weird but does show one of the 12 step melodic development approaches, that is #6 or #7 ,I believe, playing melodic idea and trying to develop or expand each time through until you get where you want. Listening now... pretty rough, but I was just posting BS examples back then.

Feel free to rip it up... I'll try and actually get out one of my guitars and post some of the previous Jam of the week tunes...work backwards LOL

Looking forward to hearing some fresh stuff. Very interesting to me how you kind of bend this tune to your style (that high-energy, 16ths, "turbo-Wes"/Benson-y thing you do). I think a lot of us are trapped in trying to grok Herbie's ethereal concept on this, and lose sight of it just being a tune that you can do your own thing on. It may not be easy to do that, but it is possible. Also, for you kids watching at home, time and right hand.

Beautiful lines, John!

Many thanks, Tommo.

Here's one. My current headphones have given up the ghost so I can't tell whether the sound's balanced properly or not. You can tell me.

I found this quite easy despite the chords. Nice, slow and dreamy, of course, so that's okay. There's lots of opportunity for some zippy pentatonic stuff but I wasn't very adventurous. Maybe another time. It's better than the one I did in 2018.

Nice chordal stuff at the beginning there, John. Something I should do more of.

Rags, this tune fits your style well, and you sound good on it. Re: balance, the bass is very low, and there's a lot of hiss and background noise.

Very nice take. You have found the atmosphere of the song perfectly. Super sound and very atmospheric playing.
Best
Kris

Thanks, Kris. Looking forward to hearing yours.

John and Rag, nice takes both.

John you do a lot of stuff I like in this, but there's one lick in particular I just love, at 1:37...this cool modern pentatonic thing. I need to get more of that in my playing!

Thanks, Jeff. It's a little lick I recycle a lot, my attempt to emulate a sort of Brecker "false-fingering sound".

You all are braver than I!

Rags, I bought that Barry Greene class last night.

Highly recommended. Sometimes his classes get too chord scaly and theoretical. There are a handful of classes where he gets the balance JUST RIGHT. Tasty lines. The bare minimum of theory to get the point across in a digestible manner. His "Dolphin Dance" class is one of such classes.

I will post soon, and I'll try not to steal everyone else's ideas when I come up with my own take .

Good to know that about the BG class. At some point I'd love to have a real lesson with him. I think, like Rags, this song might mesh well with your style and it will be interesting to hear your take.

John

[ragman1]

Re: balance, the bass is very low, and there's a lot of hiss and background noise.

Thanks, looking into it. I've been using two different headphones. One is all treble and the other's okay but maybe bassy and a bit dull. There's no overall volume mixer/adjuster on the computer (I think) so it's hard to know how to adjust anything. What is normal/right?

I suspect the reception also depends on the sound set-up of the listener the other end. Put all that together and I don't know! Just do one's best, I think.

[TOMMO]

Re: balance, the bass is very low, and there's a lot of hiss and background noise.John

I suspect the reception also depends on the sound set-up of the listener the other end.

It sounds fine on my end.

[kris]

The bass just fades away.
The guitars sound ok.

[John A.]

Thanks, looking into it. I've been using two different headphones. One is all treble and the other's okay but maybe bassy and a bit dull. There's no overall volume mixer/adjuster on the computer (I think) so it's hard to know how to adjust anything. What is normal/right?

I suspect the reception also depends on the sound set-up of the listener the other end. Put all that together and I don't know! Just do one's best, I think.

In general, getting the relative levels of bass instruments and mid/treble instruments mixed right can be challenging because because different mixes sound very different on different listening set-ups. It helps to listen on more than one set-up, and tweak things until it sounds OK on more than one. For instance, I have decent "studio" headphones, and some decent wired earbuds. The earbuds exaggerate the bass; the phones attenuate it somewhat. If I mix on just the buds, the result is usually not enough bass on real speakers. If I mix on the phones, it's usually the opposite. So when practical, I switch off between the two and tweak the mix until it sounds OK on both. Also, soundcloud's encoding can do weird stuff to your mixes, so sometimes it's good to check mixes there, and re-do them to adjust for the way soundcloud steps on them. All of this is TMI for what we're doing on these threads, so the long and the short of it is that your mixes don't have enough bass in them. Turn it up. Trust me.

John

[ragman1]

John -

Thanks. I'll try it on various different outputs. Also up the bass.

Of course I'm not using an actual bass, it's played normally into Audacity then the pitch is altered to an octave down. Not brilliant but it gives some low end. So we'll experiment. I might do some examples here and delete them afterwards.

What worries me a little is that TOMMO says it sounds all right to him... you see the point? Is it me or the listener?

[TOMMO]

John -

Thanks. I'll try it on various different outputs. Also up the bass.

Of course I'm not using an actual bass, it's played normally into Audacity then the pitch is altered to an octave down. Not brilliant but it gives some low end. So we'll experiment. I might do some examples here and delete them afterwards.

What worries me a little is that TOMMO says it sounds all right to him... you see the point? Is it me or the listener?

Most probably me....LOL!

[mr. beaumont]

I never noticed any bass in ragman's recordings, always thought it was just double tracked guitar.

Never bothered me.

[mr. beaumont]

So plugged into my aux cable in my car, I can't really hear a bass line on any example. What I get is a big "swell" on that second chord (A note? I don't have perfect pitch) that reminds me more of how bass is felt in a hip hop track. It gets increasingly woofier in each example.

Just listening through my phone, I don't notice anything.

But like I said, the lack of bass never bothered me anyway.

[John A.]

Well, I'll be honest. When those of a technical bent get involved anything can happen. You jump through a hundred hoops and eventually go back to what you started with :-)

However, here's a test if you want one. It can all be deleted afterwards. In fact it should be.

First beautiful example is the bass level I normally use. Then it increases in volume gradually till the last example is the same level as the melody/chords. It's just 1-5 on each bar.

(Bearing in mind the whole thing is rubbish anyway because it's not proper equipment )

Tell me where you think it sounds just perfect for you.

The 4th one sounds best to me. How are you recording?

John

[ragman1]

The 4th one sounds best to me. How are you recording?

John

There is a fair dollop of bass on no. 4. From here I'd say it diminished the treble, myself. I find the more bass, the less impact the melody has.

I'm not sure if I should tell you about the recording because I can't change that. But I will if you really insist!

[mr. beaumont]

Oh, jeez, hilarious! Woofier. Okay, well, you'll never miss what you never had!

Tell you what, here's it (very quick) without any bass at all. What do you think?

Cool, I stop at the market to get some spinach and pancetta, come out, new recording to check out.

Honestly, in my car, this one sounds best.

[Ronstuff]

Great tune! I used to know it well, but since my long-term memory is what it is, I had to to look at the lead sheet as I have not played it in a while. The play along I used only had one form of soloing, and also I love Jeff's short version... So here's: "Play one form, because there's 12 horn players lined up behind me to jam on it".

[Ronstuff]

Jeff, always a great ice-breaker! Great version! Love the sound and feel!

John, really cool stuff. Really love those lines, wow!

Ragman, always a pleasure to hear your unique versions. You really have a great thing going with your acoustic approach!

I love Barry Greene's stuff. I find his website and lessons are great. I subscribed for a while and really dug it. It's all there, technique, theory, and I like the way he goes through the details of a tune.

[mr. beaumont]

Great tune! I used to know it well, but since my long-term memory is what it is, I had to to look at the lead sheet as I have not played it in a while. The play along I used only had one form of soloing, and also I love Jeff's short version... So here's: "Play one form, because there's 12 horn players lined up behind me to jam on it".

I've really been digging your contributions here, and this is no exception. Has kind of an exploratory feel but remains relaxed. Its "horn like," to spout that cliché...bit for real.

[ragman1]

Cool, I stop at the market to get some spinach and pancetta, come out, new recording to check out.

Honestly, in my car, this one sounds best.

Spinach and pancetta, yum.

So it looks like the only thing the added bass does (in your car) is make it fuzzier, basically. But, of course, most of us aren't trying to do this stuff in a car! Is it too much to ask to try it all indoors on a computer or something?

See, I'm wondering what TOMMO's got that no one else has...

[ragman1]

unique

You can say that again :-)

There were some nice outside notes in your vid too. And glad you like the Barry Green thing. Advanced, though, it has to be said.

[kris]

Great tune! I used to know it well, but since my long-term memory is what it is, I had to to look at the lead sheet as I have not played it in a while. The play along I used only had one form of soloing, and also I love Jeff's short version... So here's: "Play one form, because there's 12 horn players lined up behind me to jam on it".

Your sound is great.Very nice solo.
Best
Kris

[TOMMO]

Tell me where you think it sounds just perfect for you.

What I get is a big "swell" on that second chord

I don't hear much of a difference except what Jeff noticed: the very first few bass notes get a bit woofier from example to example...

[TOMMO]

Great melodic lines, Ronstuff and I love the tone of your Guild!

See, I'm wondering what TOMMO's got that no one else has...

Shot ears maybe?

[ragman1]

Shot ears maybe?

I doubt it :-)

So I think we basically (no pun) agree that the more bass there is the woofier it gets... but I'm not sure personally that it should have no bottom end at all. It's not really meant to be an acoustic sound, just my amateur approximation to a proper one.

But I actually knew that the more bass the woofier, etc, which is why I minimised it originally.

But then I was told it hadn't got any bass...

[TOMMO]

But I actually knew that the more bass the woofier, etc, which is why I minimised it originally.

But then I was told it hadn't got any bass...

You can't please everyone....

[kris]

This is my version of Dolphin Dance.
This time I decided to play the whole beautiful theme and two improvisation choruses. I didn't want to show off my technical proficiency. I focused on the atmosphere and music. I like playing my Stratocaster more and more.

Box

[TOMMO]

That's beautiful, kris! Relaxed and unhurried and your tone fits the tune well.

[grahambop]

I doubt it :-)

So I think we basically (no pun) agree that the more bass there is the woofier it gets... but I'm not sure personally that it should have no bottom end at all. It's not really meant to be an acoustic sound, just my amateur approximation to a proper one.

But I actually knew that the more bass the woofier, etc, which is why I minimised it originally.

But then I was told it hadn't got any bass...

I wonder if electric guitar works better for this sort of thing? I assume you are recording acoustic guitar bass lines with a mic (what sort of mic?) then dropping them down an octave in Audacity. It just sounds a bit uneven or inconsistent, in terms of the bass response.

I have tried similar things using electric guitar either via Audacity or with my Boss octave pedal, and it sounded a lot more ‘full’ and consistent in the bass register than what you are getting.