JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 7) - Nica's Dream

[rpjazzguitar]

All Latin backing tracks tend to get tricky if one can't hear the bass clearly, cause, despite the claves, many times the bass is what's holding the groove together. And bass is often mixed way too low.

And then people will be listening on phones and laptops where it might not even be audible at all..

I think another issue with a track like this is whether the player can phrase with the implied clave. If you try to play swing style over it, you may conflict with the clave and add to the confusion.

[kris]

Gibson L5 is great instrument.I had the opportunity to play the L5 in a store in New York in the early 90's, I played the old L5 for 30 minutes and I had the feeling that the guitar itself was playing. The seller told me this guitar is for you. He gave the price and I almost didn't I fainted, I don't remember what year this guitar was from - I think the 1960s.

[christianm77]

Try singing a clave while you solo.

should keep you busy for a few months.

[kris]

Try singing a clave while you solo.

should keep you busy for a few months.

For me, it's much easier to play latin style than swinging style, although I like to play both genres.
Perhaps this is because Latin has an even groove. Even eighth notes are very easy to feel and you don't need to practice with the 2 4 metronome.

[christianm77]

For me, it's much easier to play latin style than swinging style, although I like to play both genres.
Perhaps this is because Latin has an even groove. Even eighth notes are very easy to feel and you don't need to practice with the 2 4 metronome.

Most people have a fairly sketchy idea of how to develop a swing feel. Also swing feels are less familiar from popular culture.

'Grid time' - quantised 16ths is easier to practice. Most practice exercises focus on the development of this, and with good reason; it's the baseline for professional music these days. And you know when its wrong and when it's right - you can see it on a DAW timeline. But rhythm isn't just grid time; and that's just as true for 'Latin' or funk as it is for jazz swing.

But actually the usual problem with those not comfortable with swing is that actually that they try to swing too much. They overdot. If you have this problem, you may be better off playing swing feels as if they were straight 8ths, straighten out and relax.... Swing comes through naturally, you can't force it. It's intuitive.

The placement of upbeats and accents is important in swing, not the ratio of downbeat to upbeat length.

And swing phrases have a clave! Parker does 100%. But then that need not surprise us because jazz came from New Orleans originally, and their music has a clave (just over the sea from Cuba)

So - in a sense, Jazz IS 'latin' (well, afro-carribean) music.

Anyway I have the opposite problem lol. I tend to swing my upbeats habitually, which sounds awful when I do the same in funk or cuban rhumba or something. Just spent a lot of time playing that old-time swing music.

And when it comes to 'Latin' music - well the use of the term 'Latin Jazz' is one excellent way to wind up all the Brazilian musicians I've ever met haha. Brazilian samba for example has its own swing. (Drum genius is great for a dive into 'latin' feels, but there are too many jazz drummers on there playing samba lol.)

If in doubt talk to a good drummer. I could write much more on this; music edu neglects the humanity, physicality and - yes - the politics of rhythm too often.

[kris]

I/ve been in Brasil long time ago.I know few musicians from Brasil.They exactly know what is going on.They have rhythm in their blood, but I think that swing / swing jazz / and latin are like different worlds.

[kris]

simple...you can play fantastic latin stuff but you can have problems with good swinging jazz stuff.

[djg]

But actually the usual problem with those not comfortable with swing is that actually that they try to swing too much. They overdot. If you have this problem, you may be better off playing swing feels as if they were straight 8ths, straighten out and relax.... Swing comes through naturally, you can't force it. It's intuitive.

and yet you can swing without ever playing any 8ths at all. swing is not an 8th note technicality. it's a "yeah, motherfucker!" atttitude.

dig sam jones, dig al harewood's cymbal. quarternotes. "yeah, motherfuckers!!"

[christianm77]

and yet you can swing without ever playing any 8ths at all. swing is not an 8th note technicality. it's a "yeah, motherfucker!" atttitude.

dig sam jones, dig al harewood's cymbal. quarternotes. "yeah, motherfuckers!!"

Yeah. Sam Jones doesn't need to go 'bucket of dung'

Not that there's anything wrong with 'bucket of dung' per se; but rather like compulsively playing triplets in one's solo it's a sign of lack of confidence in that basic thing is strong enough.

I didn't actually mention 8th notes directly, but obviously if you play lots of 8th notes instead of trying to play rhythms, this problem is exacerbated. Parker might look like 8th notes written down sometimes, but that's not how he sounds, the accents are important. (Again, repeating phrases vocally and then on your instrument will teach you this...)

[christianm77]

simple...you can play fantastic latin stuff but you can have problems with good swinging jazz stuff.

Or vice versa

[Peter C]

and yet you can swing without ever playing any 8ths at all. swing is not an 8th note technicality. it's a "yeah, motherfucker!" atttitude.

dig sam jones, dig al harewood's cymbal. quarternotes. "yeah, motherfuckers!!"

Read this during a work break. Just wanted to to say thanks for making me laugh

[kris]

Or vice versa

Yes...I know jazz musicians that do not like bossa at all.

[kris]

[lawson-stone]

Gibson L5 is great instrument.I had the opportunity to play the L5 in a store in New York in the early 90's, I played the old L5 for 30 minutes and I had the feeling that the guitar itself was playing. The seller told me this guitar is for you. He gave
the price and I almost didn't I fainted, I don't remember what year this guitar was from - I think the 1960s.

The L5ces does live up to the hype. I stumbled onto mine here on the forum and jumped at it because of the price. It always inspires me to invest more in my playing. It rewards any effort I put into it with a beautiful tone. In some ways, I don't feel I "deserve" this instrument, but then a master musician can make any instrument sound amazing. We mortals need all the help we can get, and a fine instrument that is easy to play and rewards good technique with great sound is a delight.

[kris]

The L5ces does live up to the hype. I stumbled onto mine here on the forum and jumped at it because of the price. It always inspires me to invest more in my playing. It rewards any effort I put into it with a beautiful tone. In some ways, I don't feel I "deserve" this instrument, but then a master musician can make any instrument sound amazing. We mortals need all the help we can get, and a fine instrument that is easy to play and rewards good technique with great sound is a delight.

The Gibson L5 has something secret about it. I remember when I played it in a store in New York, I couldn't tear myself away from it. With time I got sick on the L5 but the taste of something noble remained. Congratulations on having such a wonderful instrument.
Best
kris

[PickingMyEars]

Learning swing is as easy as

1:

2:

3:

Maybe not THAT easy...

Even if we play in groups without a drummer, jazz is drum music. Listen to the trap and that's that. Internalize the clock, but don't speak in tick tock, a simple triplet it's not, sometimes you gotta... drop it like it's hot. Hotter than that?

[mr. beaumont]

attempt at pithy advice time: FIND THE CLAVE IN EVERYTHING.

It;s the absolute key in being able to feel a rhythm.

[christianm77]

This Nica’s Dream piece

There’s a quite a lot to it isn’t there? I mean to actually play it right?

[mr. beaumont]

This Nica’s Dream piece

There’s a quite a lot to it isn’t there? I mean to actually play it right?

I think so.

I found it waaaaaaay more difficult than Night Dreamer

[TOMMO]

This Nica’s Dream piece

There’s a quite a lot to it isn’t there? I mean to actually play it right?

There's a lot to be learned in learning this tune.

[mr. beaumont]

Here's my contribution:

Any comments welcome.

Nice laid back take. You can see there's parts where you were comfortable, and parts where you were hesitant...the comfortable parts sound great, so really all you need is time with the tune!

Where's pierrerichard when you need him?

[mr. beaumont]

So this is my first take on this tune. I had never even looked at the lead sheet until it came up in this group, so on Friday I decided I'd work on this for a couple days then do a clip of whatever progress I'd made, the tune and the improvisation. From starting at zero, I think I've done pretty well. But clearly I have a long way to go!

I made the decision also not to slow it down too much. I've done this at about 75% of the default tempo of the backing track. I didn't want to drop into mystical floating sort of playing but to keep it crisp, the way the recordings I've heard do it.

I also find the backing track here, the Hal Leonard/Real Book track, to be really hard to play with. It has all that rhythmic shifting and slipping that makes this tune wonderful, but it's hard on me trying to figure out where the beat is!

Despite the many mistakes and clams, I'm happy to have this tune now in my head and more or less under my fingers. I've a long way to go, but I'm not intimidated but it anymore.

Any helpful observations or advice is welcome!

You can really hear how much more comfortable you are with a swing--

But actually, by that last A, you're going for it on that part too...that line that doesn't quite connect...glad you left that in, because that happens to everybody, and that kind of screw up only happens if you're GOING FOR IT....so thats the good kind of slip.

[lawson-stone]

I thought I'd just report that on this thread, with 3 or so days left on this tune, we have had 13 players posts clips of the tune. Some have posted more than one, but I think 13 people taking the time to bone up on the tune and post a clip is worth celebrating. We've also had a lot of talk about theory and aspects of this tune, but the playing is always, for me, the thing that counts.

[rpjazzguitar]

Time feel is something which resists mathematical analysis and verbal instruction.

For those interested in working on it, I'd strongly suggest watching some of Reg's youtube videos. (search for reg523)

His time feel is terrific on every note/chord he plays.

Worth trying to imitate -- and the way he records, you can see and hear exactly what he's doing.

[ragman1]

I don't think you can imitate good timing if you ain't got it! You might start okay but it'll soon disintegrate. And regrettably I don't know the answer to it either.