JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 7) - Nica's Dream

**kris** · 02-26-2021, 09:44 AM

Nica's Dream 1 chorus on jazz Telecaster

**mr. beaumont** · 02-26-2021, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by djg

and the GG reference:

You get me, djg. You're "my people."

I did always wonder about this tune, can't remember if it's talked about in the liners...I mean...it's clearly Nica.

**djg** · 02-26-2021, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

You get me, djg. You're "my people."

I did always wonder about this tune, can't remember if it's talked about in the liners...I mean...it's clearly Nica.

except that he goes from Bbmmaj7 to Eb7 and has none of the sidestep ii-V or II7 stuff in the bridge. very reductionist. almost a mix between love for sale and nica.

**John A.** · 02-26-2021, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

What's that? Creativity flagging? No idea what to do to make this tune compelling?

Take the cheapened cheerful route and turn it into a Gypsy Swing number!

Did this a while back. I actually think all the twiddles in the melody make it quite a good fit stylistically.

Great idea, Christian. The song works surprisingly well and your playing is spot on. Really enjoyed it.

Jeff: Next tune has to be Dolphin Dance, and Christian has to do GJ on that!

John

**kris** · 02-26-2021, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by John A.

I took a few cracks at this one, messing around a bit with different tones. But decided to stop here. I could have played something more interesting/adventurous, and given that I know the tune reasonably well there's no real excuse not to, but I thought the feel was decent and it's a pretty good representation of the way I play. And if there's one thing I've learned after so many years of home recording, it's the value of quitting before energy completely fades.

Now, on to listening to you guys.

John

Very nice! You play a lot of really beautifull jazz lines.
Best
Kris

**John A.** · 02-26-2021, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by djg

except that he goes from Bbmmaj7 to Eb7 and has none of the sidestep ii-V or II7 stuff in the bridge. very reductionist. almost a mix between love for sale and nica.

I think maybe the title gives it away. Green expressing his envy over Silver's success with the tune (I assume tongue in cheek), by writing a barely disguised copy. They were both Blue Note artists and this is probably an inside joke between the two of them.

John

**mr. beaumont** · 02-26-2021, 12:32 PM

Christian, I enjoyed the heck out of that. Really does work in that style, and your snappy lines are sounding great there.

Rag, I think one of my favorite posts of yours so far. Your playing style really fits ver that wistful bossa feel.

Kris, really playing on the dream part of the title...totally different feel than the original, and it really works. Great space and patience in your lines, and I'm still one of 7 people on the planet who really likes chorus

John A. The "inside joke" idea did occur to me...I guess the part I found interesting is that. lot of folks write contrafacts on the harmony, but Grant really kept the A section melody pretty close to the original, and changed the chords up a bit...

Re: my ripped jeans, it topped 40 degrees here yesterday, for the first time in a good long while... In my neighborhood, there was plenty of dudes grilling and wearing shorts. I would have joined on the grilling, but I still have a two foot high mound of snow and ice blocking my garage door where my Weber is being held hostage by the elements at least another few days.

**lawson-stone** · 02-26-2021, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

I took a few cracks at this one, messing around a bit with different tones. But decided to stop here. I could have played something more interesting/adventurous, and given that I know the tune reasonably well there's no real excuse not to, but I thought the feel was decent and it's a pretty good representation of the way I play. And if there's one thing I've learned after so many years of home recording, it's the value of quitting before energy completely fades.

Now, on to listening to you guys.

John

Like it! I like the overt bop ideas in this some kinda after-bop/still-bop tune. Nice to hear a clean archtop sound on a tune like this as well!

**ragman1** · 02-26-2021, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Rag

It does actually change to 4/4 swing in the middle but for some reason it's not that obvious.

dudes grilling

Quite funny :-)

**John A.** · 02-26-2021, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Great woman, just been reading about her. I let it run on a bit because it was nice being back off the fairy dust... oops :-)

Good one, Rags. Straddles the line between mournful and lugubrious. In a good way.

John

**christianm77** · 02-26-2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Great idea, Christian. The song works surprisingly well and your playing is spot on. Really enjoyed it.

Jeff: Next tune has to be Dolphin Dance, and Christian has to do GJ on that!

John

Thanks John! I can see this is going to be my place in life ;-)

**ragman1** · 02-26-2021, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Good one, Rags. Straddles the line between mournful and lugubrious. In a good way.

John

Lugubrious already means mournful, they're synonyms. But I blame all those min/Maj7 chords myself :-)

**John A.** · 02-26-2021, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Lugubrious already means mournful, they're synonyms. But I blame all those min/Maj7 chords myself :-)

Sorry, I should have said that it straddles the border between dolorous and sad.

John

**lawson-stone** · 02-26-2021, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Sorry, I should have said that it straddles the border between dolorous and sad.

John

You, sir, have made my day. From one word lover to another.

**ragman1** · 02-26-2021, 05:40 PM

Well, dolorous and sad are probably synonyms too. Not what I felt when playing it, I have to say, but the feelings created by m/maj7s are redolent of sadness, I suppose. Depending on how one plays them, I suspect.

**voxsss** · 02-26-2021, 06:11 PM

Christianns style was great so i added the chords and melody to band in a box and it generated this..not me playing ...real track style ...Gonzalo Bergarra Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

**djg** · 02-26-2021, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

I think maybe the title gives it away. Green expressing his envy over Silver's success with the tune (I assume tongue in cheek), by writing a barely disguised copy. They were both Blue Note artists and this is probably an inside joke between the two of them.

John

maybe. but it's more like likely that somebody else (alfred lion, ike quebec?) named that tune. i think grant was at times a bit cocky (and rightfully so) and would not have referred to himself as envious. after all it was grant who suggested that wes should take up the guitar pick, lol....

and nicas dream was already a few years old. grant surely knew and dug burrells 1957 version with silver. probably he wanted to go a slightly different road.

**lawson-stone** · 02-26-2021, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Thanks John! I can see this is going to be my place in life ;-)

N

Not so far off the beaten path as might seem:

**John A.** · 02-26-2021, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Well, dolorous and sad are probably synonyms too. Not what I felt when playing it, I have to say, but the feelings created by m/maj7s are redolent of sadness, I suppose. Depending on how one plays them, I suspect.

Yes, those are synonyms, too. You might says that my intentions in treating pairs of synonyms as if they were opposites straddles the line between levity and lightness. Or you might note that my humor straddles the line between abstruse and obscure. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

John

**ragman1** · 02-26-2021, 09:27 PM

I did notice the bop players didn't sound particularly dolorous so it must be the style.

I'm actually wondering why m/maj7 chords were used at all. Was it meant to be sad, or maybe enigmatic or mysterious? Horace must have had something in mind.

**lawson-stone** · 02-26-2021, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

I did notice the bop players didn't sound particularly dolorous so it must be the style.

I'm actually wondering why m/maj7 chords were used at all. Was it meant to be sad, or maybe enigmatic or mysterious? Horace must have had something in mind.

Implied by the melody?

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**John A.** · 02-26-2021, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

I did notice the bop players didn't sound particularly dolorous so it must be the style.

I'm actually wondering why m/maj7 chords were used at all. Was it meant to be sad, or maybe enigmatic or mysterious? Horace must have had something in mind.

I'm guessing (based on the title) it was meant to evoke a dream Nica described. So dreamlike, if not [insert pair of synonyms for puzzling here]. I actually don't perceive the song as "sad" or any other cliched link between tonality and mood. It seems almost narrative to me. The different sections strike me as "first this happened [in the dream], then this did, and then that did ...]" I can easily picture a bunch of them sitting around a table with Nica telling them the surreal details of her dream, and Horace going home and turning it into a tune. At least I hope that's the story and not Robert Klein's bit about a hot dog chasing a donut through the Lincoln Tunnel.

John

**mr. beaumont** · 02-26-2021, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

I did notice the bop players didn't sound particularly dolorous so it must be the style.

I'm actually wondering why m/maj7 chords were used at all. Was it meant to be sad, or maybe enigmatic or mysterious? Horace must have had something in mind.

Most colorful step of the classic minor Montuno pattern?

**PickingMyEars** · 02-26-2021, 11:42 PM

One thing that might harken back to on of Chris'77's youtube videos about chord chart frustrations and chord scales.

Those minor major chords on the A sections. You listen to Donald Byrd or Blue Mitchell or any of the soloists in these key recordings of Nica's Dream that we spoke of earlier and... they don't always stick to a minor/major sound when they solo. Actually, that second chord--the Ab m/maj 7--I found that the G natural was rarely expressed in the solos. If I looked at those two chords with a CST bent, I'd do melodic minor on both. At least to my ear, that doesn't work. A lot of mixing here. Natural 6's with b6s. Introducing a Gb over the Ab m/maj 7 and bringing it back to the Bb m/maj 7 as a b6th. Colors more so than scales.

I ordered that Curtis Counce "Carl's Blues" with Nica's Dream on it--hard to get a hold on that album. If you didn't see on my post from last round, Harold Land is on that record playing Nica's Dream. Yes, the same guy that played with Brownie. He put out some great stuff as a leader. Anyway, him and Jack Sheldon take what I think are perfect solos over Nica's Dream. Worth a listen again.

**ragman1** · 02-27-2021, 12:05 AM

Well, first of all here's Picking's track. Very nice. I notice that they don't use the mel m notes much and the chords seem to vary between the m/maj7 and m6.