Frustrated jazz guitar player

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-01-2019, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Oh shit I like to that best on that tune lol

Sorry mate, you're not gonna catch me with your solo then haha! The main fun for me to play this tune is the chord changes, and running through them. Otherwise it's booooring.

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Sorry mate, you're not gonna catch me with your solo then haha! The main fun for me to play this tune is the chord changes, and running through them. Otherwise it's booooring.

But that tune is the chord changes lol

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 02:43 AM

Anyway this is how jazz is done:

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-02-2019, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Anyway this is how jazz is done:

Yea, sax, big band, arrangements- you can make anything work. But back to trad jazz, resonators, and guitar solos... I dunno about you, but the last time I played All Of Me that slow... maybe never! It's a fairly uptempo tune in my circles. I take inspiration from Gypsy jazz players for this one. They don't play melodies for solo.

**alltunes** · 05-02-2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

3- Guide tone line. Making melodies that go through the tune by following a voice across all the chords. Voice is not necessarily the same chord tone degree. Obvious choice is 7 to 3, 3 to 7. This really amounts to letting the way the harmony is composed do the work. Soloist job is to find interesting rhythms and embellishments.

To get away from random noodling over scales as you admit to you might consider concentrating on the "chord of the moment". Concentrate on playing chord tones especially 3rds and 7ths and connecting them to the next chord in a musical way as suggested above.

Also melody is king...variations on the melody can make a perfectly fine solo

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Yea, sax, big band, arrangements- you can make anything work. But back to trad jazz, resonators, and guitar solos...

True. Even Johnny hodges could sound OK-ish and he was a terrible sax player. What a schmo. Lucky he had the Ellington orchestra to pick up the slack.

I dunno about you, but the last time I played All Of Me that slow... maybe never! It's a fairly uptempo tune in my circles.

Sounds good as a medium bounce. No one plays medium bounce.

I take inspiration from Gypsy jazz players for this one. They don't play melodies for solo.

Urrgghhh. They don't play any melodies at all, solo or otherwise.

Django couldn't actually remember any melodies - that's my working theory anyway. Ever heard him get through a tune without getting distracted?

Actually, joking aside, most Gypsy jazz players are pretty good at embellishing melodies. The only thing is they actually play the solo in the head. And then for the solos, it's open battle to see who gets to be the elder brother.

**coolvinny** · 05-02-2019, 03:29 PM

One thing I can tell the OP is that it took me thousands of terrible solos before I played one that wasn't absolutely horrid. THOUSANDS.

Translation: it takes time.

**joe2758** · 05-02-2019, 03:30 PM

Yeah show me Hodges without Big Band, Without arrangements, and without a sax then we'll talk.

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 03:35 PM

This man, this man, here, is the one man who could turn me back to the cause of pre-war jazz.

He has some tuition vids available...

Such a great style.

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

Yeah show me Hodges without Big Band, Without arrangements, and without a sax then we'll talk.

Absolute crap

Don't even need to listen to it.

**joe2758** · 05-02-2019, 03:42 PM

still has a sax tho

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 03:44 PM

You could mute the track

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-02-2019, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

True. Even Johnny hodges could sound OK-ish and he was a terrible sax player. What a schmo. Lucky he had the Ellington orchestra to pick up the slack.

Sounds good as a medium bounce. No one plays medium bounce.

Urrgghhh. They don't play any melodies at all, solo or otherwise.

Django couldn't actually remember any melodies - that's my working theory anyway. Ever heard him get through a tune without getting distracted?

Actually, joking aside, most Gypsy jazz players are pretty good at embellishing melodies. The only thing is they actually play the solo in the head. And then for the solos, it's open battle to see who gets to be the elder brother.

Johnny Hodges is da shit whos arguing? But again we are talking trad jazz and resonator, any relation? 'Yea, you can always resort to playing melodies' is not worthy advice still IMO, as of today, and Johnny f...Hodges video is not gonna change it!

Cmon Django, please resurrect and help me out here, with these forum warriers lol. (Only problem he couldn't read or type, damn!)

**christianm77** · 05-02-2019, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Johnny Hodges is da shit whos arguing? But again we are talking trad jazz and resonator, any relation? 'Yea, you can always resort to playing melodies' is not worthy advice still IMO, as of today, and Johnny f...Hodges video is not gonna change it!

Cmon Django, please resurrect and help me out here, with these forum warriers lol. (Only problem he couldn't read or type, damn!)

He’d be fishing and you know it

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-02-2019, 06:25 PM

I get your point though, with this tune no matter what you play it still sound like All Of Me variation because the melody is built on arpp. Fine.

How about After You Gone? Melody for the solo? Don't think so. Dinah? Nope.

**WillMbCdn5** · 05-02-2019, 07:36 PM

to the OP - sounds like you are stepping away from the basic groove/pulse as a guiding force and looking for concepts that will make your playing sound more complex. IMHO players like Jonathon Stout/Django and others in that style sound so advanced/sophisticated/brilliant is that they establish a basic groove/pulse for the specific song and embellish/express/explore that groove/pulse with note combinations that fit, but the groove/pulse is the reference.

I have always loved this vid of Taj Mahal getting Derek Trucks and Jerry Douglas et all up to speed

)

Will

**clebergf** · 05-02-2019, 10:32 PM

I did not read all the answer, I'll read later because trad jazz is my passion and I like to know other ideas about it, but do you know this course?
Early Jazz and Swing Guitar Lessons - Technique for Swing and Early Jazz | Peghead Nation

**kris** · 05-03-2019, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by joe2758

Yeah show me Hodges without Big Band, Without arrangements, and without a sax then we'll talk.

do you think it is easy to play with Big Band?
I mean to be soloist of Big Band....
You have to be more undercontrol playing with orchestra.I am sure.
Best
Kris

**christianm77** · 05-03-2019, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

I get your point though, with this tune no matter what you play it still sound like All Of Me variation because the melody is built on arpp. Fine.

How about After You Gone? Melody for the solo? Don't think so. Dinah? Nope.

Yeah mostly because there's no sustain on acoustic?

Well you could certainly play a set of variations on After You Gone, adding in arps and syncopations and scalar runs and so on... Or isolate key notes like the maj7 on Cm and so on... There's a lot of info in there.

Perhaps you could take Dinah as a cue to play a lot major pentatonic ideas on the A section.

**christianm77** · 05-03-2019, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by kris

do you think it is easy to play with Big Band?
I mean to be soloist of Big Band....
You have to be more undercontrol playing with orchestra.I am sure.
Best
Kris

We weren't actually being serious.

Reread Joe's comment and the humour is clear. I'm not hunting down a Hodges performance of 4'33".