Autumn Leaves - Robert Conti's Ticket to Improv Vol. I

**lawson-stone** · 05-18-2017, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

More down that road please. I think if you did a few more passes of that in practice, and then tried to go back and play it "straight", you'd probably come up with surprisingly different take on your "straight one".

I don't disagree, but part of my goal in this group is my reading skills, and also to resist my habitual tendency to over-work about 3 devices in soloing. So I try to learn the solo's reasonably straight.

Also, my previous "straight" one was my first and only time using Conti's supplied backing track. My other clips use the Hal Leonard Real Book tracks, which I think are quite good. The backing track really has a big impact on how one plays.

**lawson-stone** · 05-18-2017, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

More down that road please. I think if you did a few more passes of that in practice, and then tried to go back and play it "straight", you'd probably come up with surprisingly different take on your "straight one".

You know Matt, in all the great conversations we've had about music here, I've never seen a clip of your playing. Advice always has more authority when accompanied by example.

**andyb** · 05-18-2017, 01:26 PM

I have given it some more thought today, and have come to this conclusion.

Perhaps the lines are a bit dry as is, but I can see where Mr Conti is taking us and its a good place. It will take time, and for me probably quite a long time.

Its also amazing how a few comments from people who are not working through this stuff can effect us, Mrs B has much to blame for this. I did ask her what she thought, I won't be doing that again.
And other "Forum Worthies" adding there unsolicited comments, without backing it up with there version of the solo played with some amazing virtuosity!

So its time for me to get stuck back in to the work of learning this stuff.

Mini Rant over.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-18-2017, 01:34 PM

You gotta hang around the practical standards, Matt''s posted quite a few.

I learned the first 12 bars, had a go here. The lines are notey, so if you want to sit in pocket, you might delete a few...but the nuts and bolts are good, maybe a little square, but this is Bob trying to get folks started...lots folks can pick from.

Here's bars 1-12, Conti''s notes greased up a bit, and then my own bar 13-16 because I only had so much time at lunch! Anyway, here's one approach.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 05-18-2017, 01:48 PM

EDIT: sorry for the drive-by comments. Not really what these kind of threads are about. Study group threads are the best thing on the forum... Keep up the good work.

**andyb** · 05-18-2017, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

You gotta hang around the practical standards, Matt''s posted quite a few.

I learned the first 12 bars, had a go here. The lines are notey, so if you want to sit in pocket, you might delete a few...but the nuts and bolts are good, maybe a little square, but this is Bob trying to get folks started...lots folks can pick from.

Here's bars 1-12, Conti''s notes greased up a bit, and then my own bar 13-16 because I only had so much time at lunch! Anyway, here's one approach.

Well I stand corrected, thanks for that, truly inspiring. You have just answered my question and then some.
Thanks for that please come again.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-18-2017, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by andyb

Well I stand corrected, thanks for that, truly inspiring. You have just answered my question and then some.
Thanks for that please come again.

Thanks Andy. I hope this gets some folks' creative juices flowing...there's a lot of things you can do to play around with these. It's just a melody, after all, a new melody to the tune. And good singers play with the phrasing of a melody all the time.

My plan is to always be more Sarah Vaughan and less Mariah Carey

**lawson-stone** · 05-18-2017, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by andyb

I have given it some more thought today, and have come to this conclusion.

Perhaps the lines are a bit dry as is, but I can see where Mr Conti is taking us and its a good place. It will take time, and for me probably quite a long time.

Its also amazing how a few comments from people who are not working through this stuff can effect us, Mrs B has much to blame for this. I did ask her what she thought, I won't be doing that again.
And other "Forum Worthies" adding there unsolicited comments, without backing it up with there version of the solo played with some amazing virtuosity!

So its time for me to get stuck back in to the work of learning this stuff.

Mini Rant over.

I would speak up in defense of Mr. Beaumont who has put numerous clips of his playing up for all to hear. He is a fine player, and I would love to have his chops. His advice I have found on many occasions to be very helpful and practical. I don't mind at all hearing from experienced players who are following our efforts. I'm gratified at their interest, and impressed that they'd take the time to listen to our clips. I do, however, expect that if someone is going to tell me how i should play, I want to hear them play. Mr. Beaumont is one whom I know plays solid solos and has a lot to offer us.

Others also who have spoken up, I have enjoyed interacting with on the forum and found they have some good insight into music. The absence of clips just makes me rank their "player-ly" advice a little lower, but they still have good things to offer us and are worth a listen. I would just like to hear a sample of their playing so as to esteem their advice even more highly.

Mrs. B. has a stake in all this too, since evidently she has to listen to your and all of our efforts, so any unwilling victim of this process has a right to speak up I suppose!

**lawson-stone** · 05-18-2017, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

You gotta hang around the practical standards, Matt''s posted quite a few.

Wow thanks for the pointer. I never doubted it, but I just never saw them. I'll check out Matt's efforts. Really, anybody putting stuff out there is someone I am willing to listen to.

Sorry Matt if I came off a little harsh on that.

**lawson-stone** · 05-18-2017, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

You gotta hang around the practical standards, Matt''s posted quite a few.

I learned the first 12 bars, had a go here. The lines are notey, so if you want to sit in pocket, you might delete a few...but the nuts and bolts are good, maybe a little square, but this is Bob trying to get folks started...lots folks can pick from.

Here's bars 1-12, Conti''s notes greased up a bit, and then my own bar 13-16 because I only had so much time at lunch! Anyway, here's one approach.

Wow that's wonderful! You really opened up the possibilities on this for me. Thanks so much for taking the time to do that. I'm never disappointed when I hear you play!

**mr. beaumont** · 05-18-2017, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I would speak up in defense of Mr. Beaumont who has put numerous clips of his playing up for all to hear. He is a fine player, and I would love to have his chops. His advice I have found on many occasions to be very helpful and practical. I don't mind at all hearing from experienced players who are following our efforts. I'm gratified at their interest, and impressed that they'd take the time to listen to our clips. I do, however, expect that if someone is going to tell me how i should play, I want to hear them play. Mr. Beaumont is one whom I know plays solid solos and has a lot to offer us.

Others also who have spoken up, I have enjoyed interacting with on the forum and found they have some good insight into music. The absence of clips just makes me rank their "player-ly" advice a little lower, but they still have good things to offer us and are worth a listen. I would just like to hear a sample of their playing so as to esteem their advice even more highly.

Mrs. B. has a stake in all this too, since evidently she has to listen to your and all of our efforts, so any unwilling victim of this process has a right to speak up I suppose!

Thanks brother! Check out what I did to the Conti lines a page earlier. Like I said, good raw materials. I'd love to hear what others do with it, this was just my quick lunchtime noodle.

EDIT: Ah, we posted at the same time--glad you liked it!

**matt.guitarteacher** · 05-18-2017, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Wow thanks for the pointer. I never doubted it, but I just never saw them. I'll check out Matt's efforts. Really, anybody putting stuff out there is someone I am willing to listen to.

Sorry Matt if I came off a little harsh on that.

Don't mean to come off as an expert offering anything really. If anything, I feel that the playing I post DISPELS that notion pretty well. Of course, I'm not always keeping in mind that everyone doesn't SEE all of those posts. My perspective is more along the lines of "stuff I'm working on myself".

Anyway, I posted in the Stardust thread and a couple of pretty terrible versions in willow weep for me thread. There will never be another you I think....

Anyway, I never quite get around to finishing anything. Mostly a phone-posting forumite who works on things in spurts. Lots of non-jazz music endeavors throughout my week, but it's a busy time. I'm a few short years away from empty nest. Maybe more jazz at that point..https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/jazzg...ost749159.html

**lawson-stone** · 05-18-2017, 06:10 PM

Okay, so here is another attempt at "making it my own" that I'll admit is a bit more serious. Actually, this is really hard. Playing the solo as notated, I really don't have to listen to the changes. I just play the time values as given in the notation and make sure I count the beats correctly. This personalizing the notated solo is forcing me to think about where the lines are in the changes, how they might fit together, all that. Which I knew already on one level, but really need work in putting into practice.

I still use my favorite device, which is "Screw up and Speed Up to Catch Up" but I think here I've either made a good step or just made it unpardonably corny.

I really look forward to your comments, especially also Matt and Mr. B, whose point of view has been helpful to me for as long as I've been on this forum.

**losaltosjoe** · 05-18-2017, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I don't mind at all hearing from experienced players who are following our efforts. I'm gratified at their interest, and impressed that they'd take the time to listen to our clips.

Ditto Lawson! I am humbled and slightly intimidated that anyone is looking in on our study group (including Robert Conti). I can't wait until the weekend when I have time to fully explore the latest posts and complete my work on Autumn Leaves.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-18-2017, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Okay, so here is another attempt at "making it my own" that I'll admit is a bit more serious. Actually, this is really hard. Playing the solo as notated, I really don't have to listen to the changes. I just play the time values as given in the notation and make sure I count the beats correctly. This personalizing the notated solo is forcing me to think about where the lines are in the changes, how they might fit together, all that. Which I knew already on one level, but really need work in putting into practice.

I still use my favorite device, which is "Screw up and Speed Up to Catch Up" but I think here I've either made a good step or just made it unpardonably corny.

I really look forward to your comments, especially also Matt and Mr. B, whose point of view has been helpful to me for as long as I've been on this forum.

Yes! This brother, keep right at this.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-18-2017, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by losaltosjoe

Ditto Lawson! I am humbled and slightly intimidated that anyone is looking in on our study group (including Robert Conti). I can't wait until the weekend when I have time to fully explore the latest posts and complete my work on Autumn Leaves.

Well, don't every be intimidated by me, I'm nobody everywhere except here, and I'm only known here because I got shipped in with the bricks, so to speak.

Glad I can help...and remember there's a bunch here waaaaay better than me too.

**lawson-stone** · 05-19-2017, 01:22 PM

So this whole "make it my own" thing is getting out of hand. I've always been haunted by Jim Hall and Ron Carter playing "Autumn Leaves" live in a club setting on their album Alone Together. So I decided to try to play "our" solo the way I might imagine Jim Hall doing it. Poor man, he is not around to defend himself, but I hope this is seen as a kind of tribute!

It also is fun to work with the idea of what our favorite players might do with the same notated solo. I've tried here to incorporate some things that I hear Jim Hall doing a lot.

There are two takes... at any rate, I had fun trying this, and by doing it I feel I know the solo better. I definitely hear it in connection with the changes much more clearly.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-19-2017, 01:54 PM

Well I enjoyed the heck out of that. And you sure naI led the tone...

My one critique would be to lay back a bit and lock in with those drums a bit more. But this is really good stuff, man!

You shold go back and "learn your own solo" now, so you can play with that...either take.

**andyb** · 05-19-2017, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So this whole "make it my own" thing is getting out of hand. I've always been haunted by Jim Hall and Ron Carter playing "Autumn Leaves" live in a club setting on their album Alone Together. So I decided to try to play "our" solo the way I might imagine Jim Hall doing it. Poor man, he is not around to defend himself, but I hope this is seen as a kind of tribute!

It also is fun to work with the idea of what our favorite players might do with the same notated solo. I've tried here to incorporate some things that I hear Jim Hall doing a lot.

There are two takes... at any rate, I had fun trying this, and by doing it I feel I know the solo better. I definitely hear it in connection with the changes much more clearly.

Great stuff, I like the way you broke the lines in to phrase with a little space in between each phrase. To me it sounds way better than the original solo, I will have to get it recorded straight, and then have a go myself.

**lawson-stone** · 05-19-2017, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Well I enjoyed the heck out of that. And you sure naI led the tone...

My one critique would be to lay back a bit and lock in with those drums a bit more. But this is really good stuff, man!

You shold go back and "learn your own solo" now, so you can play with that...either take.

Hey thanks for that. Your opinion carries a lot of cred in my world. Yeah I felt I got out of sync with the groove in some places. Hall is funny, he sounds so floating and free, but he's always locked into the groove. Me, I just kind of float away sometimes.

It was fun to actually ask "Okay, how might Jim Hall phrase this?" and then try to remember specific touches that mark his style. Things like how he will make longish slides into notes, damp notes so that they don't ring so long, break things into shorter phrases, all that.

Maybe next I'll try the Barney Kessel vibe!

**lawson-stone** · 05-19-2017, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by andyb

Great stuff, I like the way you broke the lines in to phrase with a little space in between each phrase. To me it sounds way better than the original solo, I will have to get it recorded straight, and then have a go myself.

One of the trademark features of Jim Hall's playing is his short phrases that are like this wonderful morsels of musical goodness. And he has lots of space in his playing.

What helped me was to pick a couple places in the solo where I'd try to play it close to the notated version, kind of "tagging the base." I also picked a few phrases that I knew I could "Jim-Hall-ify" easily and locked them down. The last two measures are the hardest for me in the solo, and I still mangled them!

I did notice that by doing this, I actually feel like I know the solo better, and know more how it's working with the changes.

**Doublea A** · 05-19-2017, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

TTI it's purposefully simpler than some of his others.

I wonder if someone can help me with the answer to this one: Am I remembering wrong, or did I hear somewhere that Conti actually records these really fast as a self-limiting thing, and then transcribes and teaches them as normal-tempo solos? It may have been from someone other than him that I remember hearing about this...

I believe that the difficulty level is cumulative with the Conti stuff. He seems to want to drive home the point of "No scales, No modes". I am sure that these exercises will become rhythmically challenging as we move along

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**lawson-stone** · 05-19-2017, 03:39 PM

I absolutely promise this is my last attempt to post my bad Jim Hall imitations. I did a Band-in-a-Box track with nothing but the bass, and played the solo over just the naked bass track... kind of channeling the Jim Hall/Ron Carter thing, which was my first time even hearing the tune "Autumn Leaves." It's still, to me, the canonical guitar version.

It's scary to me that I tend to play my best when i'm actually doing a little self-mocking "bad imitation" mode...

Now I'm done! I have "A Train" to catch...

**andyb** · 05-19-2017, 04:49 PM

Interesting comparison?

I said
"Great job Lawson, I couldn't hear any mistakes. You obviously know all the solo now and at quite a fast tempo,

Mrs B has requested to hear you play at a slightly slower tempo concentrating on phrasing and dynamics."

Job done I think.

**JazzinNY** · 05-19-2017, 06:42 PM

Quote Mr. Beaumont:

"So the chord solo stuff was your own? Nice!

Man, I really suggest you go back and listen to how much more "in pocket" and swinging your own stuff is compared to the Conti solo. Really."

-- Yes, the body language is completely different.

And Lawson -- what are you basing your chord solo stuff on? Joe Pass materials?