There will never be another you

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 11:21 AM

Hey guys, I did a take on There will never be another you. My whole approach is based on Ted Greene method
(Single note soloing) so lots of chord tone notes. The main objective actually was to concentrate on swinging and rhythmical aspects as that is what i'm working on currently. I am aware of all other things that could be added like more chromatic approach some outside stuff but this is where I am at currently. Constructive critique is welcome. Thank you for taking time to listen.

**boatheelmusic** · 05-09-2015, 12:09 PM

I liked it, thanks!

I did notice some nice lines beginning sweetly , then ending in flurries of notes, FWIW.

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 12:14 PM

Thank you very much for taking time to listen. Still trying to figure out how to spice up things but obviously a lot of times seem to overplay. Thanks for bringing in to my attention. Really helps.

**boatheelmusic** · 05-09-2015, 12:16 PM

I only noticed because I do that too!

I'm trying to be more like Russell Malone in this regard.

Nice work.

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 12:18 PM

Thanks!

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 12:35 PM

Did you ever listen to Russell Malone take on autumn leaves? It's a treat in taste and intricate harmony treatment of that song.

**pkirk** · 05-09-2015, 12:50 PM

sounds pretty good to me. Since you asked, here are a few suggestions for you to either consider or ignore. try the following:

1. Don't do the rock vibrato/slide down thing at the end of your phrase
2. don't overdo the triplets, try to do swinging 8ths with one triplet thrown in to break it up now and then, rather than long
strings of consecutive 8th note triplets.
3. emphasize the important harmony changes, specifically the major to minor third on the Abmaj to Abmin, and also the
3rd on the Eb7 into the Abmaj (assuming you're playing this in Eb)

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 01:07 PM

thank you for your analysis ! these are great suggestions , I was not sure as how much to really use triplets , so I was kind of guessing, and also "emphasize the important harmony changes" in certain instances is very useful too

**katamaranos** · 05-09-2015, 03:57 PM

Great playing. I always wanted to start working with Greene's book, but I had no idea how to aproach it, it seemed to be so overwhelming. Did you work with it from the beginnig to the end?

**pushkar000** · 05-09-2015, 04:41 PM

Nice playing man!

Since Russell Malone has been mentioned, here's a video of him playing this tune :

**jordanklemons** · 05-09-2015, 04:58 PM

Sounds good man. There's definitely plenty of things you could focus on (as there are with every player). The biggest one that strikes me is just your feel....your time. At times it feels very relaxed and swinging, but not usually. Usually it feels very stiff...and I didn't sit and try and ACTUALLY figure it out, but it sounds like sometimes when you're playing a phrase with 8th notes, they're even 8ths. Maybe you could focus on relaxing (mentally and physically) and letting your 8th notes relax a little so they can sit back into the swing groove.

Might help you work on that slowly and with a metronome. Some metronomes will let you set them to subdivide into triplets with a missing 2nd triplet. That will give you the swung 8th feel. You can work on scales/arpeggios/whatever with that and try to learn to relax into it. Try not to get to dependent on it. Once you start to feel that, it's probably a good idea to play that way without the metronome spoon feeding the rhythm to you...but it's a good way to put the training wheels on the bike until you find the balance. Then maybe just try and play the swung 8th notes against an even quarter note click. And then, if that get's easy...cut the metronome bmp in half and treat it as the 2 and 4...so it's like hearing the hi hat from the drummer...and see if you can keep the swung 8th note patterns going. Don't play anything to complex with this stuff. It's just about internalizing the feel. Once you can feel that groove, and you fall in love with it...it will naturally start to affect everything else.

Just my 2 cents.

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 04:59 PM

Thank you! To answer your question about Greene's book, it is pretty much the only method I used through out the last ten years. In my humble opinion it is one of the most comprehensive methods out there short of going to music school.
Believe me I have about 40 or so other books, video lessons you name , it is just that nothing seemed to stick. Here is what really works with his method. Starting with the first example in D major all the examples are extremely musical and just fun to play, you can immediately start using it in your playing! The way i did i just really spent time with each section, for instance i would pick 4 or 5 examples and just absorb them until it just burned in my muscle memory (plus playing basic position scales and arpeggios) it does seem overwhelming at first but as i said just going through major shapes and exercises gave immediate boost to me. But there is light at the of tunnel, just concentrate on two sections major chord soloing and dominant 7 exercises. It will show how to play all of this in 7 positions. The most important aspect is his method is based on chord tones so when i encounter any chord i do not think of any modes i just think of basic grip shape of the chord and because all of his examples are sort of based on that it just sort of lends itself.
Of course it doesn't cover everything , like modal playing , outside stuff but it does lend itself nicely to sort of traditional melodic standards. Another aspect he was primarily finger style player and his examples are almost more suited for finger style but if you play it with the pick you will notice in just couple weeks that your alternate picking got a really big boost from all the cross string stuff he throws at you.

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 05:06 PM

Thanks! As far as stiffness with 8th notes im still trying to exorcise Pat Martino influence out of me:-) really in the beginning of the thread i said im working on swinging feel and thanks for mentioning because that's definitely an area of my improvement that i should concentrate on. For a while i was smitten with this straight 16 stuff and it really actually set me back as far as feel and timing.

**DanielleOM** · 05-09-2015, 05:07 PM

Did you ever get through both of the Greene Single Note Soloing books? Thought it would take years to actually my way through both of them. I often wonder how long it took for him to write them.

Danielle

**vldtovbin** · 05-09-2015, 05:30 PM

Well actually i got through the first volume and some sections in the second (some melodic minor stuff) yeah its a long term thing commitment that's for sure. I mean im still doing it today with a second volume. As i mentioned before its just sort of what works for me. Tried lots of other methods but could not sustain the commitment to them. I wonder myself how he could put such a huge volume of learning material together its like a bible:-) But I'm definitely grateful for his contributions.

**JazzinNY** · 05-09-2015, 08:24 PM

Yeah there really is something to be said for sticking with ONE method for a while -- I just don't have the discipline to do that. Currently working thru Ellis and Joseph Alexander, with Greene and Martino in the background.

An interesting thought ... Martino doesn't play swing eighths per se, but he swings like Crazy.

**jordanklemons** · 05-09-2015, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by JazzinNY

An interesting thought ... Martino doesn't play swing eighths per se, but he swings like Crazy.

Yeah man...everybody finds their own unique 'swing' feel. I mean...there is a generic approach to it....but everyone's got their own personal groove. A piano player friend of mine once told me that a guy analyzed a bunch of jazz players by putting their playing through some computer program that studied the placement of their notes...specifically their 8th notes. I remember him telling me that the guy found that Oscar Peterson and Wynton Kelly were tied in the findings for the most perfectly, nasty swing 8th notes.

Eh...who knows. Like you said...Martino swings too! It's not just about getting the 8th notes to sit within the triplet structure. But I always think that's a good starting point. Spent a little time with Ari Hoenig recently and he talked A LOT about tapping out the subdivisions on your thighs and singing the melody to a tune. Go really slowly and be able to mindlessly feel the triplet subdivision and exactly where every melody note sits within it. He seemed to be a big advocate of this as a means to really tighten up feel. That's another great thing to try as well vldtovbin. Unless it's a latin or straight 8th feel tune...than tap out the 8th notes...or 16th notes....whatever the subdivision is. But go REALLY slow for a while. And make sure you can sing the entire melody while you're doing it without any issues before trying to speed it up.

**pushkar000** · 05-09-2015, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by jordanklemons

Yeah man...everybody finds their own unique 'swing' feel. I mean...there is a generic approach to it....but everyone's got their own personal groove. A piano player friend of mine once told me that a guy analyzed a bunch of jazz players by putting their playing through some computer program that studied the placement of their notes...specifically their 8th notes. I remember him telling me that the guy found that Oscar Peterson and Wynton Kelly were tied in the findings for the most perfectly, nasty swing 8th notes.

Eh...who knows. Like you said...Martino swings too! It's not just about getting the 8th notes to sit within the triplet structure. But I always think that's a good starting point. Spent a little time with Ari Hoenig recently and he talked A LOT about tapping out the subdivisions on your thighs and singing the melody to a tune. Go really slowly and be able to mindlessly feel the triplet subdivision and exactly where every melody note sits within it. He seemed to be a big advocate of this as a means to really tighten up feel. That's another great thing to try as well vldtovbin. Unless it's a latin or straight 8th feel tune...than tap out the 8th notes...or 16th notes....whatever the subdivision is. But go REALLY slow for a while. And make sure you can sing the entire melody while you're doing it without any issues before trying to speed it up.

I read that a detailed study of "swing feel" as played by many of the masters showed that it actually wasn't a triplet, but closer to a quintuplet. The ratio they discovered was 32/51 or something like that

**vintagelove** · 05-09-2015, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by vldtovbin

Hey guys, I did a take on There will never be another you. My whole approach is based on Ted Greene method
(Single note soloing) so lots of chord tone notes. The main objective actually was to concentrate on swinging and rhythmical aspects as that is what i'm working on currently. I am aware of all other things that could be added like more chromatic approach some outside stuff but this is where I am at currently. Constructive critique is welcome. Thank you for taking time to listen.

Personally I would back off that reverb a bit. My 2 cents.... Keep it up!!!

**vldtovbin** · 05-10-2015, 02:11 AM

Guys I should qualify my Pat Martino remark (even though it was in jest), it was my incorrect interpretation of his style that led me to assume he was doing straight 8s etc...I know that he definitely swings like a mad man ! Listening to him did lead me to sort of to stiff 8s for some reason...I am definitely trying to swing more and trying things by feel of it...the metronome subdivisions suggestion is cool as I only tried things by trial and error , to know of some other tools to work on it is great. Also I really appreciate all the suggestions , thanks for taking time to comment and give feedback!

**katamaranos** · 05-10-2015, 06:14 AM

I think I'll give single note soloing another try. vldtovbin, would you mind answering some question about the book and your aproach to certain aspects later?

**vldtovbin** · 05-10-2015, 09:21 AM

Absolutely! Would be my pleasure. Please let me know of any questions you might have. Would be happy to try to help!

**supermaxx** · 05-18-2015, 10:04 AM

Just to add on -

Try to think more about how your phrases end. That's almost more important than what happens in between. A phrase that doesn't end in a definitive way often sounds out of place or unimportant even if the other notes are all good. Where's the harmony going? Is it ending on tension or relief? Where in the measure does the phrase end? All of these are good questions to think about when figuring out some ways to end a phrase.

**vldtovbin** · 05-18-2015, 10:19 AM

Hi Supermaxx,

Thank you for taking time to listen and offer constructive response. Phrasing is definitely what I am working on right now and I will give a greater consideration as to how I end the phrase. You are right the phrase ending should be more definitive. This tension and resolution thing should be clearly more present.

**vldtovbin** · 05-25-2015, 12:12 AM

hey guys here is video of the same tune , i played it yesterday at the gig. I am the second guy taking solo (kind of heavy set:-) The first guy is plain awesome young up and coming guitarist so im just trying to keep up with those young guns lol...also for a few seconds the view gets blocked ...then my solo comes in...