Do you really know your arpeggios ? Here's a test !

[Nabil B]

1 month ago I started doing an exercise daily, in order to progress in the arpeggio knowledge department. The concept of this exercise is really simple. Using this progression :

|C- |F7 |Bb |Eb |A-b5 |D7 |G- |G- |

Choose one position, play each arpeggio from the root, ascending and using 8th notes. Then do the same thing, but descending this time.

Repeat this process with the 3rd, 5th and 7th.

When you're finished, go to the next position (the goal is to feel comfortable all over the neck).


This exercise is really kicking my ass, even at 60 bpm... I really need a lot of concentration in order to do it. But I'm already seeing some progress : this is really helping me "burn" the shapes into my memory, and I can visualize them away from my guitar. I also can find all the extensions and alterations for each chord more easily than before.

Try this exercise and tell me how it went, I'd love to hear about your experiences. What is the highest tempo you can use to do it ?

[GuyBoden]

Do you really know your arpeggios ?

Yes, I use slower tempos with similar exercises, at slow tempos they are reinforced into the memory, also I sing the note names.

[docbop]

Now stop starting from the root and go to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes. I learned this at GIT in Joe Elliot's class he called it the String Game and I believe he covers it in his improv book. They have had study group here so someone can confirm. Joe would outline the 8 common chord changes and we would do the string game with all of them.

[MarkRhodes]

Now stop starting from the root and go to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes. I learned this at GIT in Joe Elliot's class he called it the String Game and I believe he covers it in his improv book. They have had study group here so someone can confirm. Joe would outline the 8 common chord changes and we would do the string game with all of them.

Yes, Joe Elliott covers this in his improv book. He calls this the "connecting game" (or "connection game"). He recommends doing it for several common jazz situations: short and long ii-V-Is, the rhythm bridge, and so on.

There's a study group on this book (Intro to Jazz Guitar Soloing, sometimes abbreviated as ITJGS). Fep leads it and contributes a lot. Check it out!

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...ead-index.html

[GuyBoden]

Now stop starting from the root and go to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes. I learned this at GIT in Joe Elliot's class he called it the String Game and I believe he covers it in his improv book. They have had study group here so someone can confirm. Joe would outline the 8 common chord changes and we would do the string game with all of them.

Yes, it's Joe Elliot's book "Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing", "The Connecting Game", Chapter 5, page 15.

[ecj]

I can do this in certain positions at 200bpm, a little slower in others, and a lot slower in some.

Starting to wonder how worthwhile the 12-position system is given how awkward some of the fingerings become. I've been doing stuff like this and reading exercises in all 12-positions. I think I've got some good fretboard knowledge, but I can't imagine ever being able to use most of the fingerings in uptempo situations.

Think I might need to switch gears and pursue some more practical fingerings for a while.

[MarkRhodes]

1 month ago I started doing an exercise daily, in order to progress in the arpeggio knowledge department. The concept of this exercise is really simple. Using this progression :

|C- |F7 |Bb |Eb |A-b5 |D7 |G- |G- |

Choose one position, play each arpeggio from the root, ascending and using 8th notes. Then do the same thing, but descending this time.

Repeat this process with the 3rd, 5th and 7th.

When you're finished, go to the next position (the goal is to feel comfortable all over the neck).

As docbop indicated in an earlier reply, Joe Elliott teaches this. I wanted to add, though, that Joe thinks it takes a long time to master this all over the guitar. In fact, he recommends AGAINST trying to do that because it is too much to take on at once. Instead, he starts with one position for Major (ii-V-I) and one for Minor (ii-V-i). That could take a month or more to get down. (Let it take as long as it takes; that varies from player to player.) Then he adds another major and minor position. He thinks someone could play for years out of just those positions. When ready, add another one, and so on.

[GuyBoden]

He thinks someone could play for years out of just those positions.

He doesn't mention this in his book.

[fep]

Now stop starting from the root and go to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes. I learned this at GIT in Joe Elliot's class he called it the String Game and I believe he covers it in his improv book. They have had study group here so someone can confirm. Joe would outline the 8 common chord changes and we would do the string game with all of them.

Yes this exercise is the core of Joe Elliott's book. In the book he calls the exercise "the connecting game".

Consecutive Eighth notes over arpeggios, no rests, change to a nearby chord tone of the next arpeggio as the chords change.

The best jazz exercise I've ever done.

[Nabil B]

I got the exercise from Sheryl Bailey, she demonstrates it in this video :

What I like about it is that it really makes you concentrate on one chord tone at a time, thus helping you memorize their locations effectively. The connecting game is also a good exercise, but I prefer to use it in more concrete situations : I take a melodic phrase and practice it while paying attention to the underlying shapes, the chord tones used and how each arpeggio connects to the next one.

ecj : wow, that's really impressive and inspiring (or maybe discouraging ? ). What helped you get to that point ? Lots of work surely, but what sort of work ? By the way, I personally divide the neck in 5 positions. I don't see the need for more.


Guy Boden : Mark is right, Joe Elliott mentions that in his "introduction to jazz guitar" book.

[GuyBoden]

Guy Boden : Mark is right, Joe Elliott mentions that in his "introduction to jazz guitar" book.

I'm struggling to find that statement in his book, are you referring to this on page 19, chapter 6 "A guitarist can be a moderately successful improviser knowing their arpeggios in just one pattern of major and one pattern of minor. However, the problems of this limitation become obvious as soon as a solo is attempted in a song that changes keys"

[MarkRhodes]

He doesn't mention this in his book.

That is how I interpreted this passage on page 20:
>>>"At this point, you will know the connecting game for situations 1 and 2 in patterns I (one) and III and situations 3 and 4 in patterns II and IV. This is a solid base from which you can play for a long time--maybe years."

[GuyBoden]

That is how I interpreted this passage on page 20:
>>>"At this point, you will know the connecting game for situations 1 and 2 in patterns I (one) and III and situations 3 and 4 in patterns II and IV. This is a solid base from which you can play for a long time--maybe years."

Many thanks for the clarification and the reference page from the book. It's a very good book, I bought it many years ago, unfortunately this was before Frank (feb) started his excellent the study group.

[ecj]

ecj : wow, that's really impressive and inspiring (or maybe discouraging ? ). What helped you get to that point ? Lots of work surely, but what sort of work ? By the way, I personally divide the neck in 5 positions. I don't see the need for more.

I don't think it's as hard as you think. No special practice, just runnin the fingerings. Can you do the arps themselves at 200?

If so, in a few days you'll be climbing up in tempo. Especially in the five main positions. Some of the in between positions are really weird if you do them Leavitt style.

[MarkRhodes]

I don't think it's as hard as you think. No special practice, just runnin the fingerings. Can you do the arps themselves at 200?

The connecting game is lot harder than it sounds. For starters, you don't go through it the same way twice. You vary it. It takes some getting used to. It's not really about playing fast. It's not a speed exercise. It's a matter of getting comfortable doing it, then finding / creating the licks one will use deliberately.

[Nabil B]

Ecj : the fingerings are not a problem, what makes it hard for me is that I need too much time to vizualize the shapes. I think G7, the dots "light up", and I locate the chord tone I need. The whole process can take me 2 or 3 seconds, which is way too much to keep up with the tempo.

[ecj]

Ecj : the fingerings are not a problem, what makes it hard for me is that I need too much time to vizualize the shapes. I think G7, the dots "light up", and I locate the chord tone I need. The whole process can take me 2 or 3 seconds, which is way too much to keep up with the tempo.

Yeah. It gets easier over time. One thing I used to do when I started learning this was start the session by playing all the arpeggios independently first. So, I'd start out looking at a ii-V-I in Cmaj with my second finger on the C at the 8th fret. At the beginning of the session I'd drill the Dmin7, G7, and Cmaj7 arps. Just push them as hard as I could. Then, drop the tempo back down and start the exercise.

Mark - I don't know how fast I can do the connecting game. It's a little different than what Prof Jones describes. I used to do that a lot, but now I'm more into lick or phrase based practice.

I like to think of specific licks that approach specific tones more, rather than the connecting game, because I've become convinced that it's a very "guitar-y" thing to do. Horn players practice phrases, not endless notes. I want to play phrases, not endless notes. So why am I practicing endless notes?

[fep]

I agree music is more about phrases and that is important to practice.

Still, I think practicing the consecutive eighth notes exercise is valuable if it is hard for you to do.

It's like learning chord fingerlings. When first learning chords a student has to pause and think as they make the next grip. They have to get fluent before they can apply it to music.

The connecting game creates the same kind of fluency with changing arpeggios (or scales or licks) with the chord changes. The constant eights, no rests, doesn't allow you time to pause, think, reset. The nearest chord tone part makes it less likely that you'll be able to rely on patterns. It forces you to think ahead. It creates new pathways in your mind and on the fingerboard. It results in you becoming skilled at arpeggios and making the changes.

I do think of it as a speed game. The faster you can make the changes the more fluent you are. I like to run it up the metronome ladder over the changes of a tune I'm working on. It's part of my learning a tune process.

[monk]

|C- |F7 |Bb |Eb |A-b5 |D7 |G- |G- |

Regarding the above.

There is no such triad or chord as a "minor flat five".

The minor triad becomes a diminished triad when the fifth is flatted.

If you are referring to a minor 7 in which the fifth has been flatted, the chord would be called a "minor seven flat five".
Regards,
Jerome

[henryrobinett]

I have always done a very comprehensive progression that goes through all 7 scale patterns in all octaves, connecting the dots doing arpeggios, triads and 7ths. From the way I see things you can't simply do it in a couple of different positions or patterns. It has to be comprehensive across the board in every conceivable pattern on the fretboard. Guitar is a bitch.

[destinytot]

I like to think of specific licks that approach specific tones

+1

[destinytot]

'We are what we habitually do'.

I think of improvising as being rather like flying a kite - you keep your feet on the ground and your hands on the strings as you wait for the right gust of wind, and you use tension to let the kite soar with the forces around it.

The amount of breeze required, and the decision to embrace or engage with it, become defining elements of the flyer's style.

For me, restraint - pausing, waiting - is an important part of the 'play' involved, which needs to be practised and developed as a skill (ideally through interaction).

I'd go so far as to say that 'restraint' is more important than 'chops'.

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

Hi!
the connecting game is also teached by Fabien Degryse,jazz educator and Professor at the Brussel's jazz Conservatory.
He wrote a book about in 1996:Ed COMBRE 75009,Paris:

"l'improvisation par les arpèges pour la guitare",with an introduction by Toots Thielemans himself !

When I studied with him,years ago before the parution of his book,I spended a whole year ONLYon that matter !!!

Hyppolyte Bergamotte

[ecj]

I have always done a very comprehensive progression that goes through all 7 scale patterns in all octaves, connecting the dots doing arpeggios, triads and 7ths. From the way I see things you can't simply do it in a couple of different positions or patterns. It has to be comprehensive across the board in every conceivable pattern on the fretboard. Guitar is a bitch.

When you consider that every other instrument needs a totally different fingering for each key and octave, it doesn't seem that bad. They have 12 keys, we have 12 positions.

[MarkRhodes]

Mark - I don't know how fast I can do the connecting game. It's a little different than what Prof Jones describes. I used to do that a lot, but now I'm more into lick or phrase based practice.

I like to think of specific licks that approach specific tones more, rather than the connecting game, because I've become convinced that it's a very "guitar-y" thing to do. Horn players practice phrases, not endless notes. I want to play phrases, not endless notes. So why am I practicing endless notes?

Good point, but for the record, Elliott recommends only five minutes a day of this (per situation). This is not about learning the arpeggios so much as it ls learning how to connect them at every possible point---part of the exercise is to go through it differently each time and, when it is time to change, go to the first available note from the next chord. Once you get the shapes down, it is a very creative exercise. And when you play something cool, you stop and jot it down for later use and refinement.

I like to play lines / phrases too. I do more of that than just about anything else. Tunes and lines, that's my bread and butter.

By the way, a lot of horn players practice long tones. A lot. Every day. That's something we (guitar players) don't have to work on the same way at all.