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What is more often used when playing jazz arpegio or scales??
I heard pat metheny saying that he uses only arpeggios to out line a chord progression...
How about the diatonic modes of the major scale?
I like Matt warnock method because he only uses the scales in one octave so it is easyer to move from scale to scale, it is faster specialy for playing bebop.
So what do you think ? Scales or arpeggios?
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06-13-2012 09:49 AM
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Jazz is never an "or" proposition. Always "and."
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The way I see it, scales are just arpeggios with passing tones, arpeggios are just scales without passing tones that emphasize specific notes. I can't image a jazz guitarist not utilizing both perspectives, you should work on using both.
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I think it makes sense to look at jazz melodies and solos and see for yourself. That will be, in my opinion, far more educational and useful than a black or white answer here.
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I thought all of the answers in this thread were pretty good.
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Scales or arpeggios? Yes.
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Maybe he didn't read that thread.
Originally Posted by GodinFan
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Maybe he'll read this one, and it'll redirect him to the questions he's already asked - which have already been answered. Originally Posted by monk
Maybe he didn't read that thread.
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Hudsontoronto,
Not to be harsh but instead of asking the same question repeatedly, LISTEN to jazz recordings, LEARN solos from those recordings, STEAL licks from those solos and use them in other songs, ACQUIRE and ANALYSE vocabulary to understand why it sounds good.
There are no secrets and there are no shortcuts, Do the damn work.
Regards,
monk
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At the risk of getting hammered, this is not how my brain works. Scales and arpeggios? That provides a starting point and tells you the typical notes you're going to use. Improvisation is about patterns and melodies injected with interesting way points and insertions. Of course, once you leave Kansas and Dorian behind, it takes a lot of knowledge and practice to find you're way but there is a lot of symmetry in improvisation (patterns) and melodies that are theme variations or simply out of your head. Sometimes the symmetry is the point, sometimes it's just a way to get somewhere in the melody.
Oh yea.. and you have to do the work. Even for the naturally creative people who can pluck cool melodies from the air on demand, jazz is hard.
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I know I asked this question before!!!
I just wanted to make sure that I am still on the right path...
I stoped winsome technique work a little, and foucosed more on tunes..
Learning licks also, I'm doing the work!!!
Taking lesson with Matt warnock online has helped me a lot...
I posted this because I heard Pat metheny saying that scales are not very important in jazz, he said that arpeggios are the core of jazz!!
That's why I posted this to get a light from you guys...
So I figure it would be good to Learn the arpeggios for the II V I chord progressions am I right??
Cheers....
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If that sentence in bold had been in the first post in this thread, that would have made a bit of difference. Originally Posted by Hudsontoronto
You asked essentially the same question - and got essentially the same answers...from the same people.
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There are 12 tones to choose from. Any method that can facilitate combining those in different ways is worth investigating. I like to look at scales and arpeggios as the same thing. You pick a bunch of notes to impose a limitation upon yourself to facilitate playing in certain patterns. The "configuration"(scales, modes, triads, arpeggios, etc) can be changed to allow yourself to be inspired to play different patterns.
I can't think of a way to simplify it more than that.
Try every possible combination. Even the "wrong" notes. Your ear will discard the stuff that doesn't resonate with you.
It's actually more about learning what not to play, than learning what to play.
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Jazz melodies and especially improvised melodic lines tend to be more angular than linear, because jazz tries to surprise, which doesn't happen so much if you play adjacent notes. So said melodies and improvised lines are often/usually built on intervals greater than a second, which is synonymous with them being arpeggios. Originally Posted by Hudsontoronto
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o yeah definately Originally Posted by Hudsontoronto
do it for songs too
start with 'all of me' maybe
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This is the video where Pat metheney is talking about the best jazz guitar players use arpeggios to outline a chord progression..
Take a listen please .
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Hudson,
This is, what, the third time you've asked the same question? That you show up here perodically asking the same question could possibly be construed by the rest of us that:
1. You think we are deliberately misleading you as a joke.
2. You think that we are all liars.
3. You're having a joke on us.
4. No one has given you the answer you want to hear in order to validate your personal opinion.
5. You think that someone has developed a magic jazz guitar pill since the last time you posted.
No matter how many times you ask this question, the answer will ALWAYS be the same.
Do you think that Pat Metheny is trying to deceive you and everyone else who watches the video?
Pat Metheny is stating his opinion. His opinion is based on what has worked for him for the last 40 plus years. That opinion, without a doubt, comes from the fact that Metheny's major influence was Wes Montgomery who, as a bebop influenced guitarist, played an arpeggio based style.
Oh, by the way, I couldn't get the video to open.
I look forward to talking with you the next time you ask The Question,
monk
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Yes. Obviously arpeggios come from scales, so one is not more important that the other. BUT it gets tiresome to hear guys who BASE their soloing a scalular thinking, unless you're playing modal music. If you're playing bop or tunes rich in harmonic content, like standards, I find it best to outline the chord, especially to take note where the 3rds and 7ths are, as well as extensions and altered tones. It just makes it more interesting and more melodic, if that's what you're going for.
I don't think of scales. I SEE the chords/arpeggios passing by on the fretboard. Scales are very limited if you are using them conceptually to get through the changes of a song. It's too vague. It's good to be vague sometimes, but if THAT'S your basic conception, it's going to be vague for a long while. Too long.
I don't even want to call it "playing arpeggios." For me it's just seeing the framework on the fretboard. That said you can make anything work for you.Last edited by henryrobinett; 06-15-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Exactly! Now I'm not a fan of CST, but one of it's strengths is highlighting the tonal gravity of the notes in the chord. You have the 1,3,5,7 intervals who are safe bets, and then you have a hierarchy of less stable tones. When compared to the major scale, those intervals are highlighted. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
And then there are a dozen other ways to look at it, which I'm a fan of. Because the more different ways you have of looking at the same thing, the more it starts making sense to you and you understand it on a deeper level.
At least that's how it works for me.
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Cool. I'm sorry, but what is CST?
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The abbreviation of Chord Scale Theory. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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Ah. Thank you. Is it a specific CST, or just in general.
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BERKLEE | Berklee Today
Short-cut.
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Thanks. Not being a Berklee guy I had other names for this. That is how I started. But I found it ultimately too limiting.
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