Pat Martino Books: Creative Force or Jazz/Pat Martino?

[bluewaterpig]

I'm looking to buy a Pat Martino book, either "Creative Force" or the one titled "Jazz - Pat Martino" (I already have Linear Expressions).

For those who have experienced them, which do you think is better? I'd like one that deals more with which minor modes can be substituted over different chord qualities (I'm already very familiar with Pat's "convert to minor" system and his typical minor lines).

Even if you only own one of them, any feedback would be appreciated.


Thanks.

[kris]

I have Pat Martino book"Jazz" with Cd.
Nice book with 14 hotlines of Pat.
Great fast lines in 16's.
"Creative Force" is on video I think.
Best
kris

[AmundLauritzen]

I have just about every instruction material he has released.

Linear expressions. A must have! Worth buying just for the first section with the minor activities. They've become an integral part of my vocabulary.
I know you already have it, but many people who read the thread don't.

Creative Force. Pat takes you through his system of building chords. His explanations are, well, if you've heard him talk you know he likes to use a lot of fancy words. But you'll get it when you watch him play. Then he goes on to explain how he converts chords to minor. It's great for making the most of your vocabulary. He then gives musical examples of different minor subs over different chords to imply extensions and alterations. It's a great DVD, but you might have to watch it several times before you can begin to grasp what it's all about because of his unclear explanations.

Quantum Guitar is like Creative Force part 2. He gets into multiple substitutions on this one. It's a great follow up to the previous one, and gives the most mileage once you've gotten a good grasp of Creative Force.

Pat Martino Jazz.
As kris says, it's a lick book. A very good one though. Instead of giving you hundreds of mediocre licks, the few licks you do get are absolutely killer.
This one has done as much to my playing as his more comprehensive instruction materials, because each lick has so much information that you can use in countless ways. It's value for the money.

I'd say get them all. Neither will disappoint you.

[Moonray]

Creative Force was also published as a 2 volume book/CD package.
They contain a lot more transcribed material from the DVD's.[C. 65-75 pages each]
Plus a helpful written commentary on each example.I found this really
interesting...having two author/transcribers giving you their impressions
of what Pat was up to.
Don't know if the books are still in print.
They were published by CPP/Belwin 1993.

[AmundLauritzen]

Creative Force was also published as a 2 volume book/CD package.
They contain a lot more transcribed material from the DVD's.[C. 65-75 pages each]
Plus a helpful written commentary on each example.I found this really
interesting...having two author/transcribers giving you their impressions
of what Pat was up to.
Don't know if the books are still in print.
They were published by CPP/Belwin 1993.

The DVD's also contain PDF's if you run them on your computer. There the lines are transcribed.

[Moonray]

Sorry I didn't read the OP's post carefully enough...I assumed
he had the DVD.
....But I'm pretty certain that the books contain far more music transcriptions
together with the useful observations of the author.
I got em both but I'm a gone Pat freak!

[robcali]

I'm looking to buy a Pat Martino book, either "Creative Force" or the one titled "Jazz - Pat Martino" (I already have Linear Expressions).

For those who have experienced them, which do you think is better? I'd like one that deals more with which minor modes can be substituted over different chord qualities (I'm already very familiar with Pat's "convert to minor" system and his typical minor lines).

Even if you only own one of them, any feedback would be appreciated.


Thanks.

I own Linear expression and Creative force 1.

I think Creative Force 1 is a great book for Pat lovers but also DVD Quantum Guitar is nice but it contains trascription of Pat solo.

To study simple Pat lines Creative Force 1 is better.

[kris]

Pat Martino "The Early Years" solos is also great book.

[bluewaterpig]

So I just got my Pat Martino - Jazz Guitar book in the mail.

I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed in the material. Every single lick in the book is in 16th notes. I understand that's how Pat primarily plays his lines but I'm not a super speed shredding player. I don't really have too much of a use for a lot of the ii-V-I lines because I'd have to play incredibly fast to use them. I don't like to play 16 notes over the course of one bar of music, but that's just me.

Did anybody else feel the same way about the book?

[marcwhy]

Pat Martino "The Early Years" solos is also great book.

+100 on this! It's put together by the great Steve Khan, who also has a wonderful Wes book.

[kris]

So I just got my Pat Martino - Jazz Guitar book in the mail.

I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed in the material. Every single lick in the book is in 16th notes. I understand that's how Pat primarily plays his lines but I'm not a super speed shredding player. I don't really have too much of a use for a lot of the ii-V-I lines because I'd have to play incredibly fast to use them. I don't like to play 16 notes over the course of one bar of music, but that's just me.

Did anybody else feel the same way about the book?

:-)
This is Pat Martino style...He like to play fast and 16th notes.
You have to look for another book/by another guitarsit/ with slower playing style or just play 16th as 8th.

[Billnc]

Play the 16th's as 8th's, you can also stay on a chord tone when you land on one to vary the rhythm. I found his style and ideas quite useful as a slow fingered beginner. (I was actually coming back to guitar after a five year total layoff but I was still very slow when I studied him, I could do some more difficult chords at the time)
They made great exercises to build speed, and strong enough lines you could slow them down and hang on the 'good' notes.

[AmundLauritzen]

If you play them as eights, then the phrase uses double the amount of bars.

You can play the phrases really slow, then when you know them well in all keys you can take fragments from them and work them into your playing. If I remember correctly, there are for instance some really tasteful double stop licks that are really versatile.

Just dissect the phrases completely and go nuts with them trying the ideas within in every possible situation. After a while, you'll have internalized some of the ideas and they'll come out according to your taste.
Licks shouldn't be practiced like cut and paste.

[bluewaterpig]

If you play them as eights, then the phrase uses double the amount of bars.

Exactly. You don't see too many tunes with two bars of ii and then two bars of V.

I can handle playing them no problem, I just wish there was a variety of speeds in this book.

[docbop]

I have a few of the Martino books and I would say the answer depends on what you're looking for. If you want some Pat lines to add to your toolbox or to see how he uses chromatics then any of the books are fine. If want to learn more about how Pat thinkings in general then Creative Force is good, and others that get into his use of chord substitutions. I remember hearing Pat say he's not fond of major chords so he uses his vast repertory of minor lines of the minor sub's. He caries that into using minor lines over dominant chords. So a book of just Pat's lines isn't going to talk about Pat's use of sub's and his thinking in long lines. Also I find watch Pat play reveals a lot too, so a DVD/pdf combo like Creative Force might give you a lot for your money.

Watching musicians play is big lesson for me. I was a Pat Metheny fan from the beginning and tried to cop some of his sounds and failed. But I finally got to see some videos of Metheny playing and saw how he navigates the neck and my approach to guitar changed for the better. It would take 10,000,000,000 words or more to describe what a minute video revealed. DVD's R GUD!

[kris]

I have a few of the Martino books and I would say the answer depends on what you're looking for. If you want some Pat lines to add to your toolbox or to see how he uses chromatics then any of the books are fine. If want to learn more about how Pat thinkings in general then Creative Force is good, and others that get into his use of chord substitutions. I remember hearing Pat say he's not fond of major chords so he uses his vast repertory of minor lines of the minor sub's. He caries that into using minor lines over dominant chords. So a book of just Pat's lines isn't going to talk about Pat's use of sub's and his thinking in long lines. Also I find watch Pat play reveals a lot too, so a DVD/pdf combo like Creative Force might give you a lot for your money.

Watching musicians play is big lesson for me. I was a Pat Metheny fan from the beginning and tried to cop some of his sounds and failed. But I finally got to see some videos of Metheny playing and saw how he navigates the neck and my approach to guitar changed for the better. It would take 10,000,000,000 words or more to describe what a minute video revealed. DVD's R GUD!

+1
Just learn how to play jazz.I have tons of books and DVDs
For me : playing gigs and recording practise sessions is most important now.

[bluewaterpig]

I just downloaded the Creative Force video. I'm not sure which one it is, but I was absolutely shocked that Pat spends the first 20 minutes or so showing how diminished chords are closely related to dominant chords from just altering 1 note, and how that relates to major 7ths, dominant 7ths, etc.

He could have shown one example for each chord type, but instead he shows literally EVERY single example. I couldn't believe how much time he spent on this!

It's a very important topic, but there is no way in hell he needed to talk for so long about it. It turned out to be a great video, but I was really bored for the first half or so.

[kris]

I just downloaded the Creative Force video. I'm not sure which one it is, but I was absolutely shocked that Pat spends the first 20 minutes or so showing how diminished chords are closely related to dominant chords from just altering 1 note, and how that relates to major 7ths, dominant 7ths, etc.

He could have shown one example for each chord type, but instead he shows literally EVERY single example. I couldn't believe how much time he spent on this!

It's a very important topic, but there is no way in hell he needed to talk for so long about it. It turned out to be a great video, but I was really bored for the first half or so.

I think you will be more interested in books and DVD's of Robben Ford.

[bluewaterpig]

I think you will be more interested in books and DVD's of Robben Ford.

Not at all, I like Pat Martino's stuff wayyy better. I love the REH book and Creative Force, just not that part.

[kris]

ok

[AleikhBaba]

A quick question on the Quantum guitar DVD phenomenon: in light of using multiple minor scale substitutes. Why does Martino approach the diminished and/or augmented families while pedaling over an A bass? For instance, when considering Faug/A (or A7#5), his minor substitutions (Bbm, Gm, Em, Dbm) are pointedly referencing the open A pedal tone. I'm curious as to why he specifically chooses to discuss his examples referencing a polychord. Hope to see some light on this.

[JakeAcci]

I'm a little confused, but I'm also not familiar with his DVD.

F+ and A+ have the same notes.

F+/A is, usually, an odd and unnecessary way of writing A+

Also, see polychord vs. slash chord.

But F+/A is really just A+, it's not a slash chord or a polychord.