Whole Tone Scale

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

you could play Cdim over CmMaj7.

Jens,

as you know,the notes of Cdim chord:
C Eb Gb A

are fragments of Lydian Minor,IV th mode of C Harmonic Minor and Lydian Minor dim (or Lydian jazz minor),the IV th mode of C Harmonic Major
11+ b3 6 T
6 11+ T b3
b3 T 11+ 6
depending of where you are on the fretboard

cheers
HB

[JensL]

Jens,

as you know,the notes of Cdim chord:
C Eb Gb A

are fragments of Lydian Minor,IV th mode of C Harmonic Minor and Lydian Minor dim (or Lydian jazz minor),the IV th mode of C Harmonic Major
11+ b3 6 T
6 11+ T b3
b3 T 11+ 6
depending of where you are on the fretboard

cheers
HB

I was talking about the diminished scale not the arpeggio, but for the rest yes you can play G harm min and G harmoni maj over a CmMaj chord (I take it you meant G not C?). There's a video of me playing on a Cm blues on YouTube where I do that.

Jens

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

you can play G harm min and G harmonic maj over a CmMaj chord (I take it you meant G not C?).

Yes,I meant well a C,not a G.

Playing a Cdim chord,C Eb Gb A over a Cmin chord,or a Cmin Maj7 chord, Gb(11+) and G(5) will clash, I agree.

But if you skip the 5th ,not an interesting note inside a minor chord, then you got the freedom to play Cdim:
T b3 11+ 6,fragments of Lydian minor and Lydian minor dim.

As to play G Harmonic minor over a CmMaj7 chord,it doesn't satisfy my taste,cause you got a Bb,and not a B.

cheers
HB

[JensL]

Sorry I was indeed not really thinking it through. I actually do like the sound of Gm harmonic over Cm7, that is what I do in the video, in essence it is a D/Cm7 chord sound.

I prefer thinking another chord as a substitute instead of a scale. Thinking in scales never gives me any good melodies, so in my head it would become something like D/CmMaj, since that gives the notes more of a place in what you hear.

I guess I understand C lydian minor (as a C lydian with a b3) I don't really get the lydian minor dim reference, that sounds like a scale with a #11 and a b5?

Did you ever count how many common minor voicings contain the 5th?

Jens

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

I guess I understand C lydian minor (as a C lydian with a b3) I don't really get the lydian minor dim reference, that sounds like a scale with a #11 and a b5?

C Lydian minor,IVth mode of harmonic Minor:

T 9 b3 11+ 5 6 b7

C Lydian Jazz minor (or C diminished Lydian,weird name), IVth mode of G Harmonic Major:

T 9 b3 11+ 5 6 7

cheers
HB

[JensL]

C Lydian minor,IVth mode of harmonic Minor:

T 9 b3 11+ 5 6 b7

C Lydian Jazz minor (or C diminished Lydian,weird name), IVth mode of G Harmonic Major:

T 9 b3 11+ 5 6 7

cheers
HB

Interesting so lydian minor is a minor scale with a #11 not a lydian scale with a b3, I guess that makes sense somehow.

And the lydian diminished is because it is the sum of a dim chord and a major 7th chord I guess. To me a clearer name would be mel min #4, but that's probably a matter of perspective.

Jens

[Tag101]

A side note relating to the Benson method and some wholetone use..... C minor7 is the same family as F7, EbMaj7, and A-7b5, so F whole tone (or what is being called B whole tone above) works over C minor perfectly, or F7, or Ebmaj7, or A-7b5. For a dom sound going TO C min 7 (over G7) just use G whole tone. This also means F diminished (1/2 whole) works fine over C minor and the same group of chords as well, or for a dom sound back into C-, obviously G 1/2 whole dim..