Modern "open" soloing/playing

**jtizzle** · 08-02-2011, 04:01 AM

I'm starting to get into working out a more "open" sound when I solo. I got the Joe Diorio book Fusion Guitar, where he writes down solos over a few standards, and there's usually 2 solos per song, a straight ahead bop solo, and a more modern solo, that uses bigger intervals like fourths, fifths, ect.
For my chords I have the Vic Juris book I've been mentioning a lot on my other posts, the Modern Chords book. I also use those chords as "arpeggios" and they actually sound good for single line solos.

Anyone here know of any other books that go into this style of playing? or any tips that would help me in starting to play like this?

**randalljazz** · 08-02-2011, 06:08 AM

diorio has another book you may like:

Amazon.com: Intervallic Designs for Jazz Guitar: Ultramodern Sounds for Improvising (REH Pro Lessons) (0073999955651): Joe Diorio: Books

**Jake Hanlon** · 08-02-2011, 06:17 AM

you might want to start checking out transcriptions of modern players to see what is going on and get into some pentatonic vocabulary by digging into some Woody Shaw or Chick Corea.

There are plenty of published books on Pentatonic vocabulary in Jazz. Bergonzi's is probably the standard, his books sort of set the standard for that kind of stuff.

**m78w** · 08-02-2011, 06:31 AM

I agree with Jake, maybe check out some of Wayne Shorter's solos from the late '60s or so, when he was getting into pentatonic scales and the like. Also, a lot of the modern sound is based on the chord subs that guys use, so Woody Shaw is great like Jake said, for his use of the tri-tone pentatonic scales, as well as Trane for all his subs.

and later on guys like Michael Brecker, probably the best guy for studying outside patterns because he was so clear with his use of them, and then for chords guys like Ben Monder and Wayne Krantz are great to check out as well.

**jtizzle** · 08-03-2011, 01:33 AM

I'm a huge fan of guys like Kreisberg or Lage Lund, but transcribing them is out of the question, most of their passages are too fast for me to play

Which is why I wanna start with books or written down stuff so I can build up speed in this style.

**Bill C** · 08-03-2011, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by jtizzle

I'm a huge fan of guys like Kreisberg or Lage Lund, but transcribing them is out of the question, most of their passages are too fast for me to play

Which is why I wanna start with books or written down stuff so I can build up speed in this style.

The Transcribe! software is excellent for slowing down faster solos so you can work out what's going on. The Diorio Fusion book has some great ideas too!

**IbanezAS100** · 08-03-2011, 05:54 AM

There are a lot of transcriptions of solos by Kreisberg, Lund, Moreno, Rogers and Rosenwinkel on the web that you will give you great insight on how these players negotiate changes, what kind of patterns they use etc...I like to isolate phrases/patterns/concepts that I like the sound of, listen to the recording so that I get an idea of the feel and then work on them as etudes and try to apply them in other contexts....and that's just with guitar transcriptions...you could check out some Chris Potter, Brecker, Joe Lovano etc....

**randalljazz** · 08-03-2011, 08:44 AM

anyone else have a problem opening these three pdf's?

**IbanezAS100** · 08-03-2011, 08:54 AM

Just tried them now and it's the Lage Lund file that seems to be dead for some reason...the pdfs seem fine..

I'll try uploading them again if lots of people have the same problem but a google search could be the answer...

**brwnhornet59** · 08-03-2011, 11:13 AM

I just tries all three. None of them opened. I had the same problem earlier with one that Fep posted.

=(

**wolflen** · 08-03-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by randalljazz

diorio has another book you may like:

Amazon.com: Intervallic Designs for Jazz Guitar: Ultramodern Sounds for Improvising (REH Pro Lessons) (0073999955651): Joe Diorio: Books

this is a very good study..it has approx 80 or so exercises....if you play them in all keys and intergrate them into your style...they will change your approach to solo playing..it really helps when you go through the book the second time...

**brwnhornet59** · 08-03-2011, 12:12 PM

Looks like a great read!! I just ordered it!!!!

**pearsonart.com** · 08-03-2011, 03:28 PM

1 Sing what you want to play, transcribe
2 Visualize your options and randomize
3 Force chord substitution outlines
4 Listen to other instruments for non-traditional phrasing
5 Have a sense of humor
6 Quote other songs
7 Sample yourself, revisit ideas and explore variations

**JonnyPac** · 08-03-2011, 08:30 PM

That book looks interesting. I think I'll snag it sometime.

I've been listening to the new Mike Moreno CD and slowing it down a bit to extract his interesting use of intervals. Lots of 4ths and bebop scales. Big leaps with chromatic runs; an interesting balance of large and small.

My favorite composer as far as intervals go is Andrew Hill. He's amazingly unique and enjoyable. By transcribing his heads, I learned a lot about his melodic conceptions in the 60's. Highly recommended listening!

**jtizzle** · 08-03-2011, 09:14 PM

Well thanks guys

My teacher actually told me about that Intervallic Designs

Thanks for reminding me

.

Ibanez, your PDFs are all broken, except for Ask Me Now, however, I was able to find them all with a quick google search

I suggest you all do the same.
I couldn't find the Lage Lund one though, could you maybe reupload that on some other website? like mediafire or something.

**JonnyPac** · 08-03-2011, 09:15 PM

I just used the look inside surprise me thing and amazon and played thru a few pages of the designs. Pretty cool stuff. I will get a copy soon! It's right up my alley these days.

**IbanezAS100** · 08-04-2011, 02:47 AM

Right, I've tried again...but as suggested above this stuff is out there, so a quick google search is the answer.

On the subject of contemporary guitarists, Kreisberg's Shadowless, Julian Lage's Gladwell and Moreno's First in Mind are all great-definitely worth checking out for tonnes of ideas

**IbanezAS100** · 08-04-2011, 02:50 AM

By the way, the Lund link is playing up again, but it can be found here I think:

GHOST NOTE ??????Lage Lund/How Deep Is The Ocean?

**jtizzle** · 08-04-2011, 04:28 AM

Haha all those guys are great. I'm not a huge fan of Julian Lage, but Kreisberg and Mike Moreno I like a lot. Lage Lund is my favorite out of all of them though

.

I was actually there for the Shadowless CD release he did in Miami. Great gig to say the least.

**brwnhornet59** · 08-04-2011, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by IbanezAS100

Right, I've tried again...but as suggested above this stuff is out there, so a quick google search is the answer.

On the subject of contemporary guitarists, Kreisberg's Shadowless, Julian Lage's Gladwell and Moreno's First in Mind are all great-definitely worth checking out for tonnes of ideas

I can't open these links.

**IbanezAS100** · 08-04-2011, 08:05 AM

There seems to be a problem when uploading files, sorry...however, as stated above, doing a google search (e.g. Jonathan Kreisberg transcription) will hopefully take you there...