when is it best to use octaves when soloing?

**richb2** · 06-13-2011, 06:44 PM

When do they work the best? When playing arps, when playing a major scale, when playing dorian, when sticking close to the melody, etc?

**mr. beaumont** · 06-13-2011, 06:49 PM

When I pay octaves, I think completely melodically. Any theory goes out the wondow, I'm just trying to hear a good line and play what I hear. Hopefully I've done enough leg work up to that moment that I won't paint myself in a corner.

You can certainly practice scales, arps, whatever, using octaves...

**paynow** · 06-13-2011, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

When I pay octaves, I think completely melodically. Any theory goes out the wondow, I'm just trying to hear a good line and play what I hear. Hopefully I've done enough leg work up to that moment that I won't paint myself in a corner.

You can certainly practice scales, arps, whatever, using octaves...

What Beaumont says is on the money. And, if it starts to sound silly (and believe me you'll know) go back to single line. Try not to overdo it in front of players because you'll end up sounding like the Beatlemania of jazz, which I guess would be called Wesomania. You can work it in so it sounds like you and isn't overkill.

**JakeAcci** · 06-13-2011, 07:14 PM

I never use octaves in my solos. It's a stylistic thing that doesn't resonate with me. I feel it's best left to other players.

**Kman** · 06-13-2011, 07:37 PM

The problem with octaves is that if you don't play them perfectly it's a toal train wreck. You kind of play them when they feel right and you need to be simple, unless your Wes and they just pour out of you. Many good guitarists think they play octaves well, but in context to Wes they are not even close. It's the most difficult aspect of Wes' playing IMO.

**brwnhornet59** · 06-13-2011, 08:50 PM

Yeah, octaves can be tricky to execute perfectly and tend to be overplayed by less than worthy attempts. I will use them at times, sparingly of course, when i have a really pretty, simple melody present. It helps, #1, because it is simple, but more importantly #2, it is so much easier to play that pretty melody correctly because you REALLY like it. At least that is true with me. When really moved i will pay extra attention to execution and it shows.

**kenbennett** · 06-13-2011, 09:47 PM

Use octaves when you want to sound fat.

**Billnc** · 06-14-2011, 12:18 AM

for me never

**Jazzaluk** · 06-14-2011, 07:09 AM

I only use octaves when I want to accent a few notes in a phrase. Usually on an ascending phase that ends on high notes... octaves maybe on the last three notes.

**Reg** · 06-14-2011, 10:20 AM

I use them all the time, even with R$B or blues gigs... I pretty much use them with heads or melodies all the time. They give guitar, as said big fat and beautiful tone with out using effects. They tend to help when covering heads with saxes and brass... somewhat cover the intonation problems... as far as solos... depends on gig, great to bring tune back down after having fun... or if the audience is a little slow, you can do rhythmic grooves and wake them up... anyway... I use them as much as single notes, there great when used with 5th between... gives a harmonic reference during solos... Reg

**wizard3739** · 06-14-2011, 10:53 AM

I use octaves once in a while to give a different take on a melody line but usually just a phrase or maybe 4 bars.

wiz

**AlohaJoe** · 06-14-2011, 05:17 PM

When tastefully done as an accent now and then (very well described by Jazzalik and Wizard) they can be quite nice, but when overdone they start to sound gimmicky and cliche'. Less is more IMO.

**JazzVocab** · 06-15-2011, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

I never use octaves in my solos. It's a stylistic thing that doesn't resonate with me. I feel it's best left to other players.

Same here, the second I play one I wish I hadn't, having said that sometimes I use it as a chord stab substitute rather than use it to play lines with them.

**fep** · 06-15-2011, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by kenbennett

Use octaves when you want to sound fat.

Exactly...

I'm having a hard time understanding some of the other posts, it's just a different sound to have in your bag of tricks. You can use them all the time... Check out Reg, playing pretty simple lines, but with octaves... man this swings:

**brwnhornet59** · 06-15-2011, 02:21 PM

Yeah, I was digging that. Reg always sounds good. Something to shoot for. =)

**colduc** · 06-15-2011, 02:44 PM

I think octaves are best used as a "melodic payoff" device at the end of a solo. I love the sound of busy, complex jazz lines that ultimately build up to a simpler, melodic climax that grooves hard; it's during that peak that I really love the octave sound. Wes and Django are perfect examples of doing that on guitar, John Lewis and Earl Hines are great with it on piano as well.

**Reg** · 06-15-2011, 02:52 PM

I'm pretty amazed... do you really mean you don't like the sound of octaves. Quick who are the best 3 or 4 jazz guitar soloist that always come to mind... do they ever use octaves. What sounds better a jazz standard played with octaves or single notes. Why do most love the sound of tenor sax... big fat beautiful sound. I play octaves pretty well and if I could play better I would use even more... anything gets boring... especially single note lines on guitar.
It seems like most will try and put time into a hip renaming of basic harmonic or melodic solo technique or re-harm. concept and struggle finding the time to be able to cover basic jazz guitar technique.
Take 10 of your favorite lines and record samples with single notes and with octaves... If you have difficulty with the technique, simplify the lines. Then listen... and objectively critique. Have someone else also listen... hell we could start a thread of lines or heads and solos played with single notes and octaves... just a thought....Reg
Ok I just read previous posts, first... thanks of kind words, really I always appreciate them. Maybe I'm misunderstanding direction of comments about use of octaves..

**brwnhornet59** · 06-15-2011, 03:04 PM

Reg, i love octaves, i just find them to be over used by players that are not competent enough to use them right, much less sound good. It seems like a lot of weekend warriors will pull this out of their bag thinking they sound like a jazz player. NOT.

In the hands of a competent player they are wonderful. From my own experience, i use them sparingly on lines that are well know to me. Like you did in "Flying to Cancun". Simple, elegant yet captivating and pleasant to listen to much less watch. The day i criticize for your playing will be the day hell freezes over!!!!!

**Jazzaluk** · 06-15-2011, 03:39 PM

Some heads have a tempo and feel that really sing nicely with octaves. Others feel better with single notes. No mystery or controversy from my seat.

Getting the phrasing right with octaves is really important on heads and during improv. Sliding around the neck in octaves with bad phrasing can be painful to listen to. I think it takes allot of work and attention to master and showcase. Reg has clearly figured it out.

Personally, until the spirit of Wes descends upon me, I must be content to use them strategically and where they feel natural.