How can I make my soloing sound jazzy?

[cravingmusic]

So lets say Im in the key of C, I'll go to my looper, throw a 2-5-1 down in C so it'd be Dm7, G7 (I usually play G9) and Cmaj7. So Ill start off in D dorian for the most part, then switch off to G Mixolydian. Which is cool and all, but I can't make it sound jazzy, dissonance just sounds silly to me while going over this, but then again I don't know much about dissonance.

So how can I go about doing this and making it sound jazzy and neat, instead of just lame and boring with no real style to it?

A few other questions...
1.) How do I make up jazz chord progressions, what kinda things can I do to chords, how do I incorporate those lovely jazzy chords that everyone loves into it?

2.) How can groove just by myself with a looper? I feel like a 2-5-1 or a 7-4-6 just gets boring after a while. I'm 14, right now I know of one other kid my age that plays jazz and studies theory like I do, hes a drummer, but we both never have time to play together.

3.) How can I add more dissonance to my playing?

4.) I'm not quiet sure if anyone can answer this, but how do plays like Kurt Rosenwinkel and Pat Metheny do it? It all sounds so dissonance, complex, wonderful to say the least. I just can't seem to grasp onto anything that there doing. I understand that they've got years of playing under there fingers and incorperate all sortsa things but what can I do to get my playing to there level. Such as what certain things do I need to practice? (I.E. Diatonic substitution, Chord melodies, arrpegios, tonal centers...)

Thanks for your help

[jzucker]

have you transcribed wes, pass, martino, kessel, etc?

[cravingmusic]

A lil Wes and Pass. I'm just now getting into the Jazz scene, since January I've been heavily studying theory and teaching myself it. Now it's time to make it actually sound Jazzy.

[Kman]

then switch off to G Mixolydian

There are other options on that G7, search the archives. There is a lot of info here, but you have to search and then experiment with it. Don't be frustrated, you're only 14.

[cravingmusic]

I can use all the modes of the Ionian too. If those are the options youre talking about.

[voelker]

I would recommend focusing on arpeggios for a while. and since your only 14, don't get too anxious, you have alot more time than you think, and your brain is still growing in a way that allows you to learn faster than older people, so take advantage of it and get those basics down now, Triad inversions are a great place to start, because if you know the 1,3,5 of a chord its pretty easy to find the 7.

Arpeggios are the way to really outline the chord changes. As far as the jazz sound goes, you won't find it in a scale or a mode, you need to listen to jazz, and don't be afraid to try useing notes outside those scales/modes. Scales are not rules, they are suggestions, outlines, guidelines the jazz sound is found in the way you emphasize/approach the chord tones. The important thing is trying to put harmonic tones on down beats and non-harmonic tones on up beats. Dissonance is fine as long as it resolves.

[musicjohnny]

Listen, Listen, Listen!

Transcribe, Transcribe, Transcribe!

[JakeAcci]

craving, you have to reframe your thinking. In my opinion, at least, it's not exactly an issue of using a different mode or a distinct set of note choices, chord progressions.

Instead of all that sh**, learn a LOT of 'standard' tunes and transcribe and work with a lot of solos from the greats. I promise that going through that long process will reveal so much more useful information than any answer in this thread can give regarding modes or anything like that. That stuff is important, but the actual music (of which there is plenty on record) comes first.

[Kman]

I can use all the modes of the Ionian too. If those are the options youre talking about.

Over G7 try G half/whole dimished scale. There are other options, but that should get you started. Just play a D-7 arpeggio or dorian scale up and the G half/whole diminished scale down and finally resolve to C maj7. Simple tension and resolution. Your ears are your guide.

When you hear a great jazz line go transcribe it. Like I said, search this forum for more great info.

[mr. beaumont]

Well, not to start another CST/Chord Tone debate (as I've stated there is no debate, both are valid and necessary for certain situations) but...

This would be one of those situations where playing scales is overkill. Think about it--Thinking mixolydian on that G7 confronts a beginner with seven note choices! And not one of 'em is an altered tone (the juicy stuff on a dominant)

Look at the arpeggios for each chord, "connect the dots" with some chromatics, play a few altered tones on that Dominant and resolve to a chord tone of the Cmaj7 (or make that chord more interesting, make it a chord tone of a maj9 or 6/9 or whatever you like that's "major")

And like the others have said LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN and COP COP COP! No better way to learn what to play over a ii V I than to hear 10 masters do it, then learn their lines in all 12 keys and pick 'em apart to see "WHY" they work.

Have fun--this is supposed to be fun. And it will be, I promise.

[jtizzle]

Guide tones. Forget (not really, but don't use them too much yet) the scales for now, if you're new to Jazz I think the best approach is Arpeggios. Usually people who do scales and are new to Jazz just run up and down the scale in the line.

Here's a better approach, I'll use your ii-V-I in C.
Dmin7 - D F A C
G7 - G B D F
Cmaj7 - C E G B

If you know any theory, you know that the 3rd and 7th are the "most important" notes in a chord (they tell the quality, and substitutions usually consist on substituting the root and/or 5th and leaving the 3rd and/or 7th intact, for example, the Tritone sub).

So here you have two sets of guide tones to start on: F (3rd of Dmin), F (7th of G7), E (3rd of Cmaj7). You also have C (7th of Dmin7), B (3rd of G7), B (7th of Cmaj7). These lines work quite well because, not only are they consonant notes in the chord that actually define what the chord qualities are (being 3rds and 7ths), but they resolve naturally to eachother (in music theory, 7th of the chord tends to resolve by a half step down, which these do).

Now it's time to think like a bass player for a bit. What do bass players do to keep the music in motion, and to lead down to tones? Chromatic leading tones that resolve by half step (usually going down, but sometimes they can resolve up as well). Now that you thought like a bass player, why not apply that into writing your own licks using your guide tones?

I'm not gonna pull out a music notation program to post a figure but play these notes, all 8th notes:
F B C Bb B F# F Eb E

It's a simple line I actually just came up with in two minutes (which shows how simple it is to come up with licks this way). It's a line that hits all the guide tones in all the strong beats while passing through them with chromatic leading tones on the "ands" of the beats.

I can't even count how many licks I've come up with just thinking this way. You should get a book called "The Jazz Theory Book" by Mark Levine. Really goes in detail on playing over chords and how to do what the players are doing with a LOT of examples.

Hope this helped

[cravingmusic]

Thanks guys! Lotsa great tips, I already knew about the arrpegios, I figured if I take every other note in a C major scale starting on the R of the scale then I get a Cmaj7 arrpegio. Easily turned into a 9th, 11th, 13th, ect.

I know all of you hate scales but thats how I think. Im definately getting into arrpegios more, the more I listen to jazz the better I seem to get at playing it. I've been playing lotsa standards and really digging into them to figure out whats going on. Sometimes dissonance just sounds plain silly.

Again, many thanks, I don't have any Jazz teachers in the area, and not many know theory oddly enough. Thankfully theory seems to just come naturally to me. I figured out if I practice things like arrpegios and scales enough they just become 2nd nature, and I can just play without even thinking about any of it.

Practice practice practice... then get up there, forget it all and just wail.

[pierre richard]

use rhythmic variety in the scales and arpeggios you play...

rhythm is the spice of life and you can't have music without rhythm..

listen..listen...listen..it's not the notes but the way they are played....

like reading a poem in a monotone voice rather than using expression here and there..

time on the instrument...pierre

[MortenFaerestrand]

4.) I'm not quiet sure if anyone can answer this, but how do plays like Kurt Rosenwinkel and Pat Metheny do it? It all sounds so dissonance, complex, wonderful to say the least. I just can't seem to grasp onto anything that there doing.
Thanks for your help

I don't think a general theoretical concept could ever capture just what these two (or anyone else) are doing.

The answer is in the music, not in the books. When you listen to it, and something catches your ear, rewind and learn to play it. You should analyze it to some point after, but see, you could never truly "get it" just by reading the analysis..

[Kojo27]

use rhythmic variety in the scales and arpeggios you play...

rhythm is the spice of life and you can't have music without rhythm..

listen..listen...listen..it's not the notes but the way they are played....

like reading a poem in a monotone voice rather than using expression here and there..

time on the instrument...pierre

+1

[martins]

Hhm. I can't image that you'll make progress with such a short chunk. I'm no expert, but I when I once tried to do so, I was very frustrated. So I switched to real songs, which evolve somehow. I usually start with a simple melody and use scales and arpeggios to move from the simple melody to more complex combinations. And then I add chromatics on off-beats. For the latter, the melodic minor and the diminished scales turned out to be helpful, since they add a few dissonant notes. But I'm no expert and far away from what the profs play.

[Kojo27]

1. Don't rely on that looper. Make your own lengthy rhythm tracks, ii-V-I progressions, blues, whatever. Use drum machine or a metronome always. Making your own tracks will help to ensure that you become good at comping.
2. Get a good book about 3-note Freddie Green-style chords, and learn to play and substitute these voicings. Jazz is *so* much about chords. Get the Mickey Baker Volume One book, also. Lots of great chord ideas and riffs w/cool "dissonance" in that great little book.

Just for something you might get a kick out of, do this: first, learn the third-fret 3-note voicing for a G7, and learn to change in and out of it from other chords, especially from Dm7. The voicing is: 3X34XX Use fingers 1, 2, and 4. Mute the x'd out strings with the sides of your left fingers and hand.

Record a track of your CMaj7 - Dm7 - G7. Use the 3-note G7! Prepare to improvise. Go. When the G7 is about to land, be ready to gracefully play some notes from a Db dominant 7th arpeggio. Ah, dissonance! When the CMaj7 is about to land again, think ahead just a bit and make sure you can find and play, on beat 1 of the CMaj7, a note that is one of the chord tones of that CMaj7 chord (C, E, G, B). Do this - make the note you play coincide with the first beat of the CMaj7 chord; but don't stop - go ahead and play, from wherever you are, some good-sounding notes from a CMaj7 arpeggio. Or play part arpeggio, part scale - whatever sounds good. Let your ear help guide you through this whole thing.

This is simplified, but should still be lots of fun if it's new to you. If it doesn't make sense, message me or post here - I'll try to explain better.

Try this is other keys: F, G, Bb, Eb, etc.

Peace,
Kojo