-
Anybody know any good exercises -- more like drills, I guess -- for getting better, faster, at improvising with octaves?
- Do you think about scale patterns?
- Do you use D string to high E octaves? (e.g., F to F, first position)
- Any books that treat octaves fairly in-depth?
I've tried till I'm blue in the face and can't seem to do octaves well with my right thumb. This seems such a natural way when you watch Wes or George Benson do it, very fast and fluid, but I have small hands and am starting to think I'm stuck with pick strums or hybrid or thumb-finger plucks. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
KJ
-
05-03-2011 04:48 PM
-
I can't use my thumb very well either. I use pick and ring finger
-
Anybody know any good exercises -- more like drills, I guess -- for getting better, faster, at improvising with octaves?
How long have you been at it? IMO the best drills/excercises are Wes Montgomery solos. Learn some of his octave solos and keep playing them over and over. You could also take easier real book tunes and play them in octaves.
-
Why do you feel you have to use your thumb??? actually, the dreaded "corn" on the thumb.
Just play it like a "power chord" with the pick but dampen/mute the middle note (P5) with the left hand.
-
The point of learning improvising octaves is probably to sound like Wes, and Wes did it with his thumb
Originally Posted by NSJ
-
Here's a sample of how I play octaves... not my best, but the whole tune.
Check it out and would be glad to share any techniques I have...Reg
-
Thanks to everybody so far. Gramps, NSJ, Kman, Tom, Reg... I think someone should write a book (booklet?) about octaves and how to look at them more or less systematically -- or maybe someone already has. I can play major and minor and pentatonic scales with octaves, so maybe that's as close as it'll get to a system. "Hear it and play it, dumbass." Heh.
Kman: I know some of Wes' stuff, which drives me even crazier, cuz it doesn't sound right! The notes are right, but the tone is wrong - or not what I wish it were.
Reg: shit, man -- this is what I'm talking about. You've got it down. Great tone, and to me, octave playing is mostly about tone. I like the tone of a pick - sharp and crisp attack - and I can do that (not EVEN as well as you can), and I can hybrid pick them, but something's lacking. You're hitting the strings pretty hard, aren't you? Maybe I need to get more aggressive....
Love the video. Very fiery, great playing. I'll watch this over and over. Thanks a million for posting it. I'll be up all damn night now. Love the triplets at 1:35 or so.
Oh, and to make things worse, I play fingerstyle on a flattop and have the big-ass thumb nail, which can really get in the way. I'll keep trying, though.
Thanks all...
KJ
-
Hey KJ thanks... if you can post some kind of video... I can very easily see any technique hangups... The cool think about octaves is they sing... much easier to hear what your playin... The left hand just takes time so you don't have to think about getting the fingering and part of the sound is gracing or sliding into notes, again just take practice. The right hand, well I play chord solos in much the same way as octaves... each attack is like one note, when I use my thumb or pick. If you want to see more I have a few Wes tunes I posted a while ago... anyway I could dig them up or pick a tune and I'll read through it and make another video... Reg
-
Hey Reg,
Anything you want to put up would be gold to me. Any of Wes' stuff -- whatever. "On Green Dolphin Street" is like "it" to me, for what a jazz standard is, or should be. Would love to hear that poured out in octaves, whole or in part, anything. Today, I've been listening to Miles Davis and Coltrane (...from New York) playing "So What" - love that. Begs for a guitar solo.
I'm video-challenged right now, but I'm working on it. They come out really dark and grainy.
When I use my thumb, especially since I play a strictly acoustic archtop (no pickup at all), I find myself either digging in and sort of playing an "out stroke" if you know what I mean -- either that or lifting my fingers (my guitar has no pick guard) and sort of smacking the octaves almost like a thumb-bass player would, but with more of a down stroke to it. I somehow doubt that either of these techniques is gonna give me the tone you're getting - ha! If I plant my fingers on the guitar, I have no reach left, cuz my hands are too small. On my electric, w/pick guard, I do better. Benson has hands like mud flaps -- he could hold the guitar in his right hand, by the bottom, and still have plenty thumb left.
Can it even be done on an acoustic? Hell, I don't know! I've been at jazz for less than 2 years, but I know a bunch of standards and I understood theory coming in. Jonny Pac has my pick technique in pretty good shape, and I'm fair at playing over standard changes. Fair.
Thanks again, Reg. You play really well.
KJ
-
I should say I just checked and I actually *can* rest a couple fingers on the face of the no-pickguard guitar and still reach up plenty far enough.
-----------
And:
Reg: when you're soloing with octaves, it seems you play 80% of the high melody notes on the top 3 strings. Did this come from any conscious way of looking at the fingerboard, or of relating pitches to the fingerboard...or what? Example: I can tell you, just by ear, that, in C, the first notes of Green Dolphin Street are C, B, G, E, Bb. My guess is that you'd play the first note on the 8th fret of the 1st string. The other notes are very close by, but how do you know them -- by sound/name alone (your ear is trained), or are you thinking fingering patterns - or what? And for the rest of the tune? Same? I know all the notes on the neck, and you surely do, too -- but I don't know how you're using that, OR NOT, with octave soloing.Last edited by Kojo27; 05-03-2011 at 11:10 PM.
-
Hey Reg, great work on the octaves. Are you using flats? Any tips on EQ for this technique? Are you using reverb on there or delay?
-
Liked that one, Reg'!
-
Does any one here play octaves on the low strings (E+D and A+G) with the second finger and pinkie? this is how I play them and I think that's a bad technique.
-
Don Mock has a nice little book on this. check it out.
i cant really play them well. i also play some classical so will not use my thumb for this - even though the thumb produces the best tone by far, IMO.
i have decided that if i really want to become skilled with this i will need to do the following: practice octave arpeggios, arpeggios with approach notes, "half scales" (12345-4321 etc), intervals/thirds like 1-3, 2-4, 3-5, etc. and of course Wes heads and solos - even fragments of solos. play them slow and clean. play them daily without fail. give this a few years. patience and persistence will be the key.Last edited by fumblefingers; 05-15-2011 at 01:01 PM.
-
That's Hot Reg!
+1 Originally Posted by fumblefingers
I have this book by Don Mock:
Amazon.com: Don Mock's Jazz Guitar Masterclass (Book & CD): Books
He does a good job getting you up and running with octaves. I really like Don Mock's instructional material, for me his material is very practical (as opposed to theoritical).Last edited by fep; 05-15-2011 at 03:55 PM.
-
Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Me too, fumble -- I play steel string fingerstyle stuff and my thumbnail is essential, so maybe this is a subconscious barrier when I try to play octaves with my thumb. Don't want to rip off my thumb nail. I've done it before - it hurts like hell.
-
Thank you, fep! This is what I was looking for when I started this thread - or one of the things I was looking for. Bless ya, dude. Originally Posted by fep
Reply With Quote
“Shearing style”
Yesterday, 05:26 PM in Comping, Chords & Chord Progressions