Advice on what to practice for 6-8 hours a day?

[nyc chaz]

When I said that 26 years old is late to make a serious commitment to music, I meant if you intend to make a career out of it. I too started playing in my late teens but was playing in my college jazz band within a few years (winging it a lot) and then gigging, etc. But I did not make music my career. The cost of living was much lower when I was your age - affordable housing was not a rare anomaly - so it was far easier to get by on limited finances.

Good points Mick.I feel sorry for young guys today in any field but making a living in music today is really a tough task.The amount of work available is nowhere near where it was 50 years ago especilly in jazz.Let's be real even back then most jazz players unless you were a star needed to supplement their income by taking non jazz gigs or driving a cab etc.

[pamosmusic]

I started playing guitar when I was fourteen and didn’t play an instrument before that. For whatever that’s worth.

[pauln]

I started guitar as a young teen after having played clarinet and piano for years before. I felt the guitar was my natural instrument; even after just a couple of years people would mentioned me and Eric Clapton in the same sentence!









"Yeah, I've heard that Pauln, he's no Eric Clapton."

[pamosmusic]

“Boooooooooooooooooo”

[ragman1]

Do you mean a job in music to be serious about it or a non music job? I have a professional career, I am just laid off right now. Between a remote job and this I can get in a lot of practice. I am not sure why people don't seem to believe me

I mean serious about the whole situation.

It's not that I don't believe you, I believe you only too readily. You're currently unemployed, which was fairly obvious, and filling your time with your interest. Which is fine, I've done the same myself, nothing wrong with it. The trouble is it seems to have become some kind of fanatical obsession and there's plenty wrong with that.

You appear to have imposed some kind of rigid regime on yourself as a matter of control and discipline. Sounds good but actually it's all a self-centered enterprise geared to obtaining a goal. But the goal will only consist of what you put into it, nothing more. If all you practice repetitively is exercises that's all you'll have. But jazz is about playing tunes and improvisation and, not surprisingly, you admit to not being able to do it.

If you go to, say, a jazz session you'll be expected to know a whole volume of tunes in any key, read scores, improvise without preparation, and so on. You'd be lost and I think you know it.

So what's it all for? If you do succeed in playing 6-8 hours a day, for what? What's it all for? So you can feel good about yourself which is no more than self-congratulation? You can't live in a bubble all to yourself. No one can. You have a wife. What does she say to all this? Or your father? He was a player but presumably didn't make his living from music.

Most professional well-known players were born into musical families, started early, went into the military or to music school and never did much else besides music. They probably needed to practice endlessly whereas you're just imposing it on yourself in some illusion that one day you'll make it, whatever that may mean.

The exception to this was Wes Montgomery who was a welder by day and practiced by night. But you claim to have a professional career which, together with your wife who also works, keeps you financially secure. But actually you're 'laid off' from working remote hence all the free time. Which means you're not working at all. Thank god you don't have children.

What do you do? Some kind of IT? My partner is/was a senior systems analyst/developer contractor who, during COVID, worked remote. But you don't seem very anxious to get back to work and the real world.

I think you should. It won't stop your interest in music, obviously, but it might put things in perspective. Look at your posts here, it's all about you and no one else, your regime, your problems, your aims, goals and ambitions, etc. And naturally it's become an almost neurotic fixation. You need to break it before it gets worse.

By the way, you also said you had a teacher. Well, I can tell you he's pretty useless because apparently he's not telling you what several of us have said here, assuming you've made your problem as clear to him as you have to us.

You're only 26 with a neck hump and slouch already. Wakey-wakey, sunshine, time to get up.

[pamosmusic]

“Boooooooooooooooooo”

This was in reference to ragmans screed but he deleted and reposted it. Whoops.

[StringAddict]

I mean serious about the whole situation.

It's not that I don't believe you, I believe you only too readily. You're currently unemployed, which was fairly obvious, and filling your time with your interest. Which is fine, I've done the same myself, nothing wrong with it. The trouble is it seems to have become some kind of fanatical obsession and there's plenty wrong with that.

You appear to have imposed some kind of rigid regime on yourself as a matter of control and discipline. Sounds good but actually it's all a self-centered enterprise geared to obtaining a goal. But the goal will only consist of what you put into it, nothing more. If all you practice repetitively is exercises that's all you'll have. But jazz is about playing tunes and improvisation and, not surprisingly, you admit to not being able to do it.

If you go to, say, a jazz session you'll be expected to know a whole volume of tunes in any key, read scores, improvise without preparation, and so on. You'd be lost and I think you know it.

So what's it all for? If you do succeed in playing 6-8 hours a day, for what? What's it all for? So you can feel good about yourself which is no more than self-congratulation? You can't live in a bubble all to yourself. No one can. You have a wife. What does she say to all this? Or your father? He was a player but presumably didn't make his living from music.

Most professional well-known players were born into musical families, started early, went into the military or to music school and never did much else besides music. They probably needed to practice endlessly whereas you're just imposing it on yourself in some illusion that one day you'll make it, whatever that may mean.

The exception to this was Wes Montgomery who was a welder by day and practiced by night. But you claim to have a professional career which, together with your wife who also works, keeps you financially secure. But actually you're 'laid off' from working remote hence all the free time. Which means you're not working at all. Thank god you don't have children.

What do you do? Some kind of IT? My partner is/was a senior systems analyst/developer contractor who, during COVID, worked remote. But you don't seem very anxious to get back to work and the real world.

I think you should. It won't stop your interest in music, obviously, but it might put things in perspective. Look at your posts here, it's all about you and no one else, your regime, your problems, your aims, goals and ambitions, etc. And naturally it's become an almost neurotic fixation. You need to break it before it gets worse.

By the way, you also said you had a teacher. Well, I can tell you he's pretty useless because apparently he's not telling you what several of us have said here, assuming you've made your problem as clear to him as you have to us.

You're only 26 with a neck hump and slouch already. Wakey-wakey, sunshine, time to get up.

Obvious bait. May I ask how old you are? Internet trolling is unusual behavior for someone older than 35 which I assumed you were.

Thankfully many people gave good advice on here, but sadly there seems to be "forever posters" such as yourself who are only interested in trolling. It's one thing to do this over political discussions, but about jazz music? Strange...

"THEORETICALLY IF YOU HAD CHILDREN" - but I don't - what an insane thing to say. Don't take out anger if children of yours got in the way of your hopes and dreams, on a stranger asking for advice on the internet, just because they are more serious than yourself about music.

Maybe if you spent more time practicing instead of drafting up harangues on a forum, accusing a stranger of the worst possible interpretation based on a post about practice time, you would have less negative delusions about what a "waste" it is to practice, and more practice time yourself.

Your post makes it seem like you are bitter and envious of someone with more practice time than you. You could easily gain an hour a day if you didn't spend time surfing a forum for people to argue over practicing music.



Also - For what it is worth, any of your "advice" that wasn't obvious trolling, was terrible anyways. You insist it is a waste to practice a lot because you need to "learn the music". How do you learn the music if not to practice it? Totally unserious. At the local jams, I was only able to hang BECAUSE I spent so much time practicing, and knew a good amount of tunes, and could get by on them.

I get the vibe you are a "crack open a cold one, and 'play what I feel' for an hour" player who "takes it a day at a time" and wonders why he isn't better after 20 years while patronizing anyone you know who takes it seriously.

You can't "get me" with calling me laid off when I am who told you this in my own post... yes, I work remote, and am laid off, making as much money as I made working, from a generous severance. Pretty nice gig, no need to shoot the messenger. Your breadwinning wife works remote so she can tell you that's how it is these days. Don't take it out on me if you weren't so lucky man.

[pamosmusic]

You could easily gain an hour a day if you didnt spend time surfing a forum for people to argue over practicing music.

Lmfao.

Absolutely devastating

[James W]

I mean serious about the whole situation.

It's not that I don't believe you, I believe you only too readily. You're currently unemployed, which was fairly obvious, and filling your time with your interest. Which is fine, I've done the same myself, nothing wrong with it. The trouble is it seems to have become some kind of fanatical obsession and there's plenty wrong with that.

You appear to have imposed some kind of rigid regime on yourself as a matter of control and discipline. Sounds good but actually it's all a self-centered enterprise geared to obtaining a goal. But the goal will only consist of what you put into it, nothing more. If all you practice repetitively is exercises that's all you'll have. But jazz is about playing tunes and improvisation and, not surprisingly, you admit to not being able to do it.

If you go to, say, a jazz session you'll be expected to know a whole volume of tunes in any key, read scores, improvise without preparation, and so on. You'd be lost and I think you know it.

So what's it all for? If you do succeed in playing 6-8 hours a day, for what? What's it all for? So you can feel good about yourself which is no more than self-congratulation? You can't live in a bubble all to yourself. No one can. You have a wife. What does she say to all this? Or your father? He was a player but presumably didn't make his living from music.

Most professional well-known players were born into musical families, started early, went into the military or to music school and never did much else besides music. They probably needed to practice endlessly whereas you're just imposing it on yourself in some illusion that one day you'll make it, whatever that may mean.

The exception to this was Wes Montgomery who was a welder by day and practiced by night. But you claim to have a professional career which, together with your wife who also works, keeps you financially secure. But actually you're 'laid off' from working remote hence all the free time. Which means you're not working at all. Thank god you don't have children.

What do you do? Some kind of IT? My partner is/was a senior systems analyst/developer contractor who, during COVID, worked remote. But you don't seem very anxious to get back to work and the real world.

I think you should. It won't stop your interest in music, obviously, but it might put things in perspective. Look at your posts here, it's all about you and no one else, your regime, your problems, your aims, goals and ambitions, etc. And naturally it's become an almost neurotic fixation. You need to break it before it gets worse.

By the way, you also said you had a teacher. Well, I can tell you he's pretty useless because apparently he's not telling you what several of us have said here, assuming you've made your problem as clear to him as you have to us.

You're only 26 with a neck hump and slouch already. Wakey-wakey, sunshine, time to get up.

Talk about the time and effort you put in to discourage someone from practising. Absolutely pathetic.

[John A.]

Obvious bait. May I ask how old [/FONT]you[FONT=&quot] are? Internet trolling is unusual behavior for someone older than 35 which I assumed you were.

Thankfully many people gave good advice on here, but sadly there seems to be "forever posters" such as yourself who are only interested in trolling. It's one thing to do this over political discussions, but about jazz music? Strange...

(snip remainder of high-quality counter-harangue)



Yeah well, he could have phrased his thoughts a bit differently. No doubt, he learned his lesson (not!)

But there is a hint of a scintilla of a trace of a valid point in there -- you're presenting this elaborate and specific plan for improvement and then asking us to suggest specific tweaks and details to it. That strikes me as a bit backwards and pointless. Backwards because I think it makes more sense to start with some sort of demonstration of where your playing is and ask for guidance as to how to build a plan to get to where you want to go. Pointless because nobody who hasn't heard you play can say anything useful at the level of specificity you're looking for. What to tell you is highly dependent on where you are on the hopeless->has-potential ->already-brilliant spectrum, which is impossible to discern from typing. That, and you're asking for advice in a forum where a large portion of the people responding are not expert enough to offer real advice (as you seem to have noticed). Lots of chaff, not much wheat.

I suggest two things: 1) take this entire set of plans and questions back to your teacher and ask for help paring it down and organizing it in light of the goals you've stated. It strikes me as massively overthought with too many answers and assumptions about what to do and how long to do it for. 2) Use the forum not as a proxy for teachers but as a place to share your progress, thoughts about music, etc. for the sake of sharing. There are a bunch of threads were people post progress videos, which can be a lot of fun. If you come in with the expectation that people here can give you high quality actionable playing advice you're probably going to be disappointed.

FWIW, I'm an amateur who gigs occasionally for pay (about 50/50 jazz and blues), regularly attends open jams, and plays/hangs with other musicians frequently. I have some music education (e.g., some theory and lessons amidst non-music studies in college), but am mainly self taught. I started and stopped playing a few times as a kid (including some classical lessons). I picked it up again in high school and stuck with it. My level of musical activity has varied considerably, but I've always been "serious" about it. I know many people who have gotten serious (in terms of attitude, if not necessarily achievement) about jazz at various ages. I don't think I have four hours worth of solo guitar repertoire in me, but I sing too and can get through a couple of sets by myself by combining vocal and instrumental tunes (though I prefer to play with groups). I'm not great, but people seem to enjoy what I do. So I get what you're trying to achieve and think it's a reasonable idea (though I do find it overly specific).

[pamosmusic]

I suggest two things: 1) take this entire set of plans and questions back to your teacher and ask for help paring it down and organizing it in light of the goals you've stated. It strikes me as massively overthought with too many answers and assumptions about what to do and how long to do it for. 2) Use the forum not as a proxy for teachers but as a place to share your progress, thoughts about music, etc. for the sake of sharing. There are a bunch of threads were people post progress videos, which can be a lot of fun. If you come in with the expectation that people here can give you high quality actionable playing advice you're probably going to be disappointed.

This is all very good advice.

I don't think I have four hours worth of solo guitar repertoire in me.

My god, who does.

I have had a sporadic four-hour Sunday morning gig, and thank the lord there is a distinct Before-Church and After-Church crowd, or some poor shmuck would be hearing a lot of Stella By Starlight.

[nyc chaz]

I think the OP has his head on straight.If he was going into debt for his dream then i would advise against it but this is not the case,he has income coming in.He's only 26,so why not go for it.You are only young once.I wish the OP good luck and even if you somehow don't achieve all your goals,so what.Take it from an old dude like me,the journey is often more fun than the destination,so enjoy the ride.

[John A.]

This is all very good advice.



My god, who does.

Ted Greene? Lenny Breau? Joe Pass? But what they really had was a concept of how to arrange tunes on the spot and huge bags of tricks that they could apply to any tune they knew (and they knew hundreds, or maybe even thousands). That's much more useful than a large number of canned solo arrangements.

I have had a sporadic four-hour Sunday morning gig, and thank the lord there is a distinct Before-Church and After-Church crowd, or some poor shmuck would be hearing a lot of Stella By Starlight.

That and "I'll be back after a short break" + an expansive concept of "short break".

[StringAddict]

(snip remainder of high-quality counter-harangue)



Yeah well, he could have phrased his thoughts a bit differently. No doubt, he learned his lesson (not!)

But there is a hint of a scintilla of a trace of a valid point in there -- you're presenting this elaborate and specific plan for improvement and then asking us to suggest specific tweaks and details to it. That strikes me as a bit backwards and pointless. Backwards because I think it makes more sense to start with some sort of demonstration of where your playing is and ask for guidance as to how to build a plan to get to where you want to go. Pointless because nobody who hasn't heard you play can say anything useful at the level of specificity you're looking for. What to tell you is highly dependent on where you are on the hopeless->has-potential ->already-brilliant spectrum, which is impossible to discern from typing. That, and you're asking for advice in a forum where a large portion of the people responding are not expert enough to offer real advice (as you seem to have noticed). Lots of chaff, not much wheat.

I suggest two things: 1) take this entire set of plans and questions back to your teacher and ask for help paring it down and organizing it in light of the goals you've stated. It strikes me as massively overthought with too many answers and assumptions about what to do and how long to do it for. 2) Use the forum not as a proxy for teachers but as a place to share your progress, thoughts about music, etc. for the sake of sharing. There are a bunch of threads were people post progress videos, which can be a lot of fun. If you come in with the expectation that people here can give you high quality actionable playing advice you're probably going to be disappointed.

FWIW, I'm an amateur who gigs occasionally for pay (about 50/50 jazz and blues), regularly attends open jams, and plays/hangs with other musicians frequently. I have some music education (e.g., some theory and lessons amidst non-music studies in college), but am mainly self taught. I started and stopped playing a few times as a kid (including some classical lessons). I picked it up again in high school and stuck with it. My level of musical activity has varied considerably, but I've always been "serious" about it. I know many people who have gotten serious (in terms of attitude, if not necessarily achievement) about jazz at various ages. I don't think I have four hours worth of solo guitar repertoire in me, but I sing too and can get through a couple of sets by myself by combining vocal and instrumental tunes (though I prefer to play with groups). I'm not great, but people seem to enjoy what I do. So I get what you're trying to achieve and think it's a reasonable idea (though I do find it overly specific).

This is great advice, thanks. I did bring it to my teacher and yes he reassured me to spend time now on certain things, and later to introduce others. My issue was feeling like I was losing ground if I didnt hit everything every day, and it is especially easy to get overwhelmed reading the magnitudes of "what you should practice" on the internet.

You are right about using the forum this way as no one can really be prescriptive. I thought there was some way to hit all of those areas at once but I dont think thats the best use of time after speaking with my teacher again. For example I havent really been limited by technique so far when learning tunes so no need to spend time on it over other things like learning the jazz language, which is most important.

Thanks for the advice

[StringAddict]

You seem to be new around these parts. You’ll realize eventually how few of these goobers telling you The Hard Truth are doing half of what they’re telling you to do.

Be serious if you want to be serious. My only advice is the same as before. Let it ebb and flow. Play less when you’re feeling it less. Don’t burn out.

Thanks, this is definitely true.

[StringAddict]

I think the OP has his head on straight.If he was going into debt for his dream then i would advise against it but this is not the case,he has income coming in.He's only 26,so why not go for it.You are only young once.I wish the OP good luck and even if you somehow don't achieve all your goals,so what.Take it from an old dude like me,the journey is often more fun than the destination,so enjoy the ride.

Thank you! Yes I agree about the journey. I understand you never quite reach the destination

[emanresu]

I am currently on 12-hour practice routine often.
That's a freedom and a curse.
Making it groove takes 20-40 minutes.
Reviving what I got takes another hour.
Then the freedom comes.
...

Can't give advice here. My goal is to make sense and be worth of playing/listening, so whatever I do, has to make sense.
It is a vague but a good goal
Works for me atm.

Just experience talking here.