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Thanks, yes I se it is often overlooked and I have taken a break from it as well to focus on learning actual language which I was lacking.
Originally Posted by jazzyfan
Yes I am a thumbpicker
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02-03-2026 06:50 AM
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If you’re confident with the scales and arpeggios than honestly language is the move — slow, patient work with transcriptions that push your technique is better for your chops than scales and arpeggios (assuming you have that foundational stuff down). Originally Posted by StringAddict
Work out good fingerings *and picking patterns and well placed slurs* and play them a lot. Play bursts with them too. That sort of thing is probably better for your technique than burning your time on scales. I burned out from playing when I was about your age and it was for a lot of reasons but definitely part of it was because I was playing 5-6 hours a day and doing TONS of mechanical work with scales and stuff and didn’t make the transition into application. I’m glad I did that work, but you can absolutely overdose on it. And practically speaking, there are diminishing returns on that kind of practicing when you’re practicing that much.
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Okay thanks, yeah I practiced that stuff for two years every day. I wouldnt say I am automatic, but i know them well enough. I have seen Metheny and Rosenwinkel absolutely burn through them in all keys without a hiccup, I am far from that. But it was definitely holding me back from learning the actual music. Now I am trying to take it in smaller chunks and just play arpeggios to the tune I am on / maybe a couple scale positions to keep up some of that stuff but mostly absorb the language.
The best players seem to have spent hours trying to copy the licks as kids / teens, before ever worrying about shredding all scales mechanically, if they ever did that.
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I never spent much time shedding scales etc. when I got into jazz (I was about 20). I already kind of knew the basic major and minor scales from my classical guitar lessons, so I couldn't be bothered with all that. I didn't have loads of spare time, so I just went all-in learning tunes by ear (I didn't even have any fakebooks!) and copying lines from records. The only book I got was the Joe Pass chord book, because I didn't know how to voice jazz chords (all I'd done up to then was classical and rock).
That's basically all I did for some years. (However I did do some serious work on arpeggios at some point, because I realised that was a bit of a gap that needed fixing.)
Learning tunes and lines etc. was a lot more fun than playing scales all day, and eventually I found I could play decent solos and my ears were pretty well-trained.
If I was starting now, I'd probably buy loads of books and watch loads of videos and just get very confused!
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OP, not sure how much help this video will be for you but I found it pretty interesting:
I would also recommend getting a ChatGPT or Gemini account and explaining your situation (you can just copy + paste your posts from this thread) and it will help spit out very structured approaches, or at the very least help you organize your thoughts and reduce anxiety about not using your time wisely enough (which is a very silly thing to be worried about, consider some books on zen philosophy).
I like the pyramid approach in the video above applied to the approach of continuously mastering a tune until you reach the apex of the pyramid with it. One of the longer posts earlier in this thread laid it out how to do this systematically.
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How do you play your scales? Originally Posted by StringAddict
Thumbpick?
Thumb alternating with index or middle?
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I used to shed them daily with a regular pick. Then moved to fingers usually IM or TI which I had got from thumbpicking. Originally Posted by jazzyfan
I never practiced scales for jazz with TI thumbpick though. Just for thumbpicking tunes, there were occasionally multi octave scale runs or licks, and I would have to make an exercise out of them to build them up to speed. But it is quite different doing TI with the thumbpick vs without unfortunately, so for jazz my TI speed isnt too good
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Chord-scales and arpeggios are references for vocabulary for me, rather than being things that I practice for their own sake. For example suppose you found a line from a record (by transcribing it or from someone else's transcription) that's an enclosure of a note followed by an arpeggio. In order to practice, internalize and use this line, you need a context or a reference. Suppose the enclosed note is the third of the chord. If you want to practice this over tunes, you need to be able to locate the third of the chord you're playing the line over. Eventually you might start hearing the line but that comes after playing it correctly for a long time. At least for me.
Then you might use the enclosure idea over other notes that work over the chord. How do you find those notes? That's where knowing your scales and arpeggios can be helpful (again as a reference). You can play that idea by enclosing the fifth and playing an arpeggio after and see if you like it. But this time it'll be a different type of arpeggio. You may work on different enclosure ideas etc.
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Question for the OP?
Are you independently wealthy, living at home with parental units at no cost? If not, any idea how you will cover cost of living on your own? I don't ask this as a smart azz but I think there might be a huge gap between what you want or hope for, and the harsh reality of living in the real world.
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He already answered this question.... but frankly, 26 years old is an advanced age to get serious about being a musician, so he's way behind the eight ball and will need those 6+ hours a day of practice just to get ahead. Originally Posted by MiniMerckx.22
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He needs a job. To be serious about it.
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I don't think 26 years old is an advanced age to be a musician for a dedicated individual if it wasn't for the fact that it is the music business of 2026. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Last edited by Tal_175; 02-05-2026 at 10:03 AM.
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Already answered this but why couldnt I cover the cost of living? I am not trying to make my sole career playing jazz. I started too late for that and understand theres really no money in it for 99.9% of the top talent even. I never said anything to this effect in my post Originally Posted by MiniMerckx.22
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Yeah I didnt begin music until 19. But I practiced a lot from the start, its just I didnt get to 4-5+ hours a day until 23. So i have been at it seriously for a few years but part of why is that I am "making up for time". I am probably doing the time most "serious" musicians do during teen years/college. I imagine besides the Julian Lages of the world, most of the folks who are serious jazzers / go to music school start between 10-12, after a few years are competent at the instrument and decide to take up jazz in their teens, practice a ton from 15-17 to 23 or so after music school and then have a more normal playing amount because they are mostly satisfied with their ability and they can learn tunes, play gigs, etc, all with 2-3 hours a day of practice on the high end. Originally Posted by Mick-7
I am just shifting that wood shedding a few years. I consider myself fortunate to have this opportunity and thank God everyday for it. I know I likely wont be able to keep up this amount for ever.
I also have no illusions about starting this late as many of the posters are assuming. I dont think I will become the next Julian Lage or Joe Pass. But I do want to be able to play solo gigs, with a command of harmony and melodies for improv, write tasteful arrangements of my favorite tunes jazz or not jazz, and play them for myself and others. I do believe that is possible, but even that takes this much time and effort.
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Thanks for the optimism. I started at 19 and it wasn't until 22 or so I realized my age and started getting insecure about the age factor. It really is an anxiety. I have surpassed friends who started at 10 who learned enough to play pop tunes and then would look at tabs from Ultimate Guitar 2x a week through highschool and college, but when I think about people who started at 10, went to undergrad at music school, etc, its easy to feel like I am wasting my life trying to do something impossible. Originally Posted by Tal_175
But then again, I dont have a dream of being the best performer at Berklee. Or even being a famous jazz guitarist. I just want to have the freedom to arrange and improvise solo guitar in a way that sounds like me. As long as I can get good enough to have my own sound, i think thats the goal, chops or not.
If you think about it there is a quite a disparity in skill even amongst the greats. Frisell played clarient through school years and switched to guitar at 16. Lage started at 3 and was performing with Santana at 12, learning jazz theory also, etc. I think when listening to them it is obvious who has more "skill".
But Frisell is the only person who sounds like Frisell. He is still so good that many (including myself) love his music more then a prodigy virtuoso like Lage.
There will always be someone better, but as long as you get a point where you can have creative freedom to sound like you (of course it needs to actually be good musically), then you have "made it", money or not, fame or not
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Do you mean a job in music to be serious about it or a non music job? I have a professional career, I am just laid off right now. Between a remote job and this I can get in a lot of practice. I am not sure why people don't seem to believe me Originally Posted by ragman1
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You said you were married correct?Assuming your wife is working you have income coming in .You wouldn't be the first musician who has a working wife that allows him to chase his musical dreams. Originally Posted by StringAddict
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I think starting early is a misunderstood concept because people focus on the "early" as a number instead of what "start" means and how it's sustained. I played instruments "early" but I didn't really "start" until much later. It's easy to catch up with people who had early introduction to playing but never really trained seriously which is most guitar players. On the other hand there are those who started training on the piano with, say, Suzuki method before the age of five, they studied regularly with an instructor and were reasonably dedicated and self-driven. There is no catching up with that. But most guitar players do not start before their teens and don't train effectively for sustained periods of time. Also teenage years is not early age for music. Early age is like before 7. Originally Posted by StringAddict
Same with sports. I started playing tennis at the age of 6 but I never played competitively or consistently. There is a guy at work who started playing tennis in his 40's but he's been very serious. He has been training and playing all year round. We play sometimes. He is already better than me. Even his technique looks very natural which is hard to acquire in tennis.Last edited by Tal_175; 02-06-2026 at 02:00 PM.
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We both work but yes I know people like that. So we have a combined income. Originally Posted by nyc chaz
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This gives me hope. I dont want to compete with Julian lage or Pasquale Grasso, but being able to playa solid 4 hour solo gig and actually have good music would be nice. Originally Posted by Tal_175
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You seem to be new around these parts. You’ll realize eventually how few of these goobers telling you The Hard Truth are doing half of what they’re telling you to do. Originally Posted by StringAddict
Be serious if you want to be serious. My only advice is the same as before. Let it ebb and flow. Play less when you’re feeling it less. Don’t burn out.
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Being able to perform music that's enjoyable to listen to is not a super high bar to achieve. People often make the mistake of comparing themselves to others but that's really not the bar that matters. Originally Posted by StringAddict
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Also I think some people who have kids (raises hand) forget how much time you can have in a day.
When I was 26 I was married and working at a jazz club. My wife was a teacher. So I’d wake up when she left for work and I’d leave for work at 2:00.
Seven hour window right there.
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It’s so interesting, to read the responses to the OP ambitions.
Coming from a rock background in the 1970s, I took an interest in jazz in my early 20s. Got the old Real Book from a Berklee grad and learned GAS tunes.
I played in a wedding band for a couple years, doing 80s pop and some solo jazz guitar at dinner.
The drummer got me an audition at a regional college to play in their big band and show band that led to getting a full music scholarship, including lessons with an old jazzer who helped polish my chord melody playing. Most importantly, that gave me the luxury of practicing all day.
Upon graduation I was well on my way to being a work-a-day musician with the wedding band, the big band and a jazz combo, and running a small studio and teaching many guitar students.
But by 1990, constantly hustling for gigs had worn me down and I was getting burned out. I soon realized that the lifestyle of an entertainer wasn’t for me. So at age 30 I quit the guitar, sold all my gear and used my savings to study and travel, taking up world music and eventually settling in Japan with a non-music vocation and jazz as a rewarding pastime.
IMHO devotion to practicing and improving as a musician needs to be balanced with the realities of making a living at it, and with developing a clear sense of self.
More power to those who have stuck it out, and wishing the OP all the best in their endeavors.
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When I said that 26 years old is late to make a serious commitment to music, I meant if you intend to make a career out of it. I too started playing in my late teens but was playing in my college jazz band within a few years (winging it a lot) and then gigging, etc. But I did not make music my career. The cost of living was much lower when I was your age - affordable housing was not a rare anomaly - so it was far easier to get by on limited finances. Originally Posted by StringAddict
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