Drill / Exercise / Technique that You'd Say Made the Biggest Change?

[BreckerFan]

I've never heard of this - can you explain please? or can you link to any resources?

He has a video about it in his subscription lessons. Without giving too much away, it's practicing an interval moving non-diatonically by a second interval. So like my example, playing perfect fifths ascending upward by b9 (half steps, so from each note of the chromatic scale), then perfect fifths by natural 9 (whole steps, so each note of the whole tone scale), then perfect fifths by minor thirds (from each note of a diminished arpeggio), etc.

[Christian Miller]

This sounds like something I should really be doing!!!

Could you possibly give an example or further explanation or perhaps link to a video that goes into a bit more depth on how I can start working on this from first principles please?

I discuss the exercise at 7:45

I haven’t done a dedicated video on it, but I will


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[Blue J]

Yes. I had a little snafu this morning. Corrected.

[Strat-itis]

By far recording all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're doing if you don't record. You can shed all the time, you can even gig, but if you don't record, you'll just by definition not be holding yourself accountable to how it actually sounds to the listener, and even be reinforcing poor playing. If you record several times a month to several times a week, analyze, then work on correcting the weaknesses, you make focused improvement in the areas that make you verifiably sound better. When I first joined the forum in 2020 I thought dur hey I'm good cuz I have good influences and a tad of talent, when I was actually more playing at a late beginner early intermediate level. Then I realized some players actually put up pro level recordings here so it held me accountable.

[pamosmusic]

By far recording all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're doing if you don't record. You can shed all the time, you can even gig, but if you don't record, you'll just by definition not be holding yourself accountable to how it actually sounds to the listener, and even be reinforcing poor playing. If you record several times a month to several times a week, analyze, then work on correcting the weaknesses, you make focused improvement in the areas that make you verifiably sound better. When I first joined the forum in 2020 I thought dur hey I'm good cuz I have good influences and a tad of talent, when I was actually more playing at a late beginner early intermediate level. Then I realized some players actually put up pro level recordings here so it held me accountable.

Going to have to switch it around on the gigging bit.

you can record all you want but if you don’t play with other people, you don’t know what you sound like

[pauln]

By far recording all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're doing if you don't record. You can shed all the time, you can even gig, but if you don't record, you'll just by definition not be holding yourself accountable to how it actually sounds to the listener, and even be reinforcing poor playing.

Is that because you think musicians aren't able to listen to themselves when playing? If so, why would you think they would be able to listen to a recording? If not, whatever the reason, how do you square it with the history of musicians that knew what they were doing before recording was a thing?

As the kids say these days, "Let me fix that for you..."

By far listening all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're doing if you don't listen. You can shed all the time, you can even gig, but if you don't listen, you'll just by definition not be holding yourself accountable to how it actually sounds to the listener, and even be reinforcing poor playing.

[rpjazzguitar]

Obviously, there were good musicians before there was recording.

But, I still find recording to be invaluable.

I have repeatedly found that what I think I sound like and what the recorder documents are not the same.

Recently, I recorded a gig and found, on the recording, that the guitar was distorted. Nothing else was. The patch I was using was distorting. It might be that it wasn't so bad in the monitor, but it was bad FOH. Next gig, I adjusted the patch and the recording was fine.

And, that's not even about the actual playing other than tone.

Maybe, back in the day a person who needed recordings, which didn't yet exist, didn't become a musician. Now, there are more tools, so mere mortals have a shot.

So, I'm fully supportive of the idea of keeping yourself honest with recordings. And, for those who haven't yet tried, the quality of the handheld devices is my idea of excellent. Lows suffer a bit, but you can EQ them back in with a DAW.

[Strat-itis]

Going to have to switch it around on the gigging bit. You can record all you want but if you don’t play with other people, you don’t know what you sound like

Yes, you do know what you sound like if you record, how could you not? lol It's literally documented exactly as you played it. They're not mutually exclusive of course. Gigging gets your playing tighter because of the interfacing with the band's energy, the audience's energy, and the feeling of being live in the moment. But recording is still a separate thing that really helps.

Is that because you think musicians aren't able to listen to themselves when playing?

They're incapable of listening 100% objectively while they play in real time. You have to hear it recorded to know what it really sounds like.

By far listening all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're doing if you don't listen.

Yup. That's literally why I'm recommending recording - to objectively listen to how you sound and improve it. Not just to record and never analyze it.

You can shed all the time, you can even gig, but if you don't listen, you'll just by definition not be holding yourself accountable to how it actually sounds to the listener, and even be reinforcing poor playing.

Yup. That's my premise for recommending recording. You always have to listen and be mindful of how you sound, regardless of it's practice, performance, or recording.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, you do know what you sound like if you record, how could you not? lol It's literally documented exactly as you played it.

Get ready to be surprised by how you feel and sound with people! We probably agree on this, I would just rather play with one other person once a week and never be able to record myself than the opposite.

They're not mutually exclusive of course. Gigging gets your playing tighter because of the interfacing with the band's energy, the audience's energy, and the feeling of being live in the moment.

Looser, maybe. More responsive by necessity. You have to confront the likelihood that the stuff you're working on won't fit in with what everyone else is doing and learn not to force it.

They're incapable of listening 100% objectively while they play in real time. You have to hear it recorded to know what it really sounds like.

Yeah this is true. I'm not sure it's totally a bug though. For example, I think the reverse is true. It's really really hard to be sort of listening to yourself and go where the music goes when you know you're being recorded. I'm not 100% sure that's different than when you're performing and being watched by an audience, but I think it is. I like when people send me recordings they took of me playing, but I really don't like recording myself when I perform. Makes me feel like I'm not all there.

[James W]

I do tend to record myself when I perform (i.e play at home with a backing track usually). If you're used to always being recorded then that, I have found, might help disappear the self-consciousness or not being all there.

[Strat-itis]

Get ready to be surprised by how you feel and sound with people!

Yup. Similar type of phenomenon. When you listen back to a recording it's different than what you expected. Same type of thing when you jump into a live setting and hear yourself in real time.

Looser, maybe. More responsive by necessity. You have to confront the likelihood that the stuff you're working on won't fit in with what everyone else is doing and learn not to force it.

Yes, live is a completely different approach because the sonic environment shifts under your feet in multiple ways at once and you have to adapt to that even if it's the same song that you already practiced 100 times.

We probably agree on this, I would just rather play with one other person once a week and never be able to record myself than the opposite.

Uh huh. Gigging and recording aren't mutually exclusive. Gigging is a main part of the experience of being a musician. Plus it makes you better. So I would never downplay it. I'm just not able to gig anymore so I focus on recording because it makes me feel satisfied to have recordings that I'm happy with and I know are objectively good.

"You're incapable of listening 100% objectively when playing in real time." Yeah this is true. I'm not sure it's totally a bug though. For example, I think the reverse is true. It's really really hard to be sort of listening to yourself and go where the music goes when you know you're being recorded. I'm not 100% sure that's different than when you're performing and being watched by an audience, but I think it is. I like when people send me recordings they took of me playing, but I really don't like recording myself when I perform. Makes me feel like I'm not all there.

I think you definitely get looser when you perform than when you record. It is harder to follow the music during recording. My goal is to just do it so much that it's the same as playing normally tho ha.

[wolflen]

I have been fortunate..Many of my musician friends had their own small recording studios and would be able to do basic demos
for singers and songwriters. In other situations there was a reel to reel working for my duets with another guitarist and we would record
our compositions as well as our practice session of going through sets of standards.

In some instances I was invited to play in a couple of major studios--yes it feels like your working under a microscope.

In retrospect hearing my own playing was a wonderful way to correct mistakes and sometime even be surprised at my own ability.

[rpjazzguitar]

One thing I noticed was that it was best to set the recorder at the beginning of the set, or jam, and just let it run. Edit out the dead space later.

It drove me crazy when one guy insisted on starting and stopping the recorder for each tune. Ready to play? NO! WAIT! And, be reminded that you may be hearing about it later in ways you'd rather not.

Like hearing somebody else list my mistakes -- as if I didn't already know about them.

[Christian Miller]

I record myself often in practice but I’ve stopped doing it on gigs except when I want to get some social media footage.

Your reactions to your own recordings will be subjective and will change over time.


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[jamiehenderson1993]

I discuss the exercise at 7:45

I haven’t done a dedicated video on it, but I will


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I look forward to that video - thank you so much for your help

[JazzPadd]

There's some amazing advice here, and it's turning out to be quite a valuable resource.

In my case, I didn't start getting somewhat serious about playing jazz guitar until my mid 50s. I played much more, semi-professionally, when I was in my 20s, but then took a long hiatus from the guitar to travel and study in my 30s and 40s, including learning something about various kinds of world musical systems and instruments. When I returned to guitar, jazz became more or less a pastime. So, given that time factor, and looking at all the very interesting possibilities, it dawned on me that I don't need to learn everything. So I started focusing mainly on the things I enjoy and wanted to do, and which encouraged me to play with others. Beyond a basic level of competency on the guitar, one doesn't need to do it all.

One of the things that was immensely helpful was moving away from thinking of playing full chords and more toward using notes and intervals, many of which take on different roles depending upon the harmonic and performative context, especially while comping. I paid close attention to Jim Hall, and noticed how he uses just a couple of notes to outline the changes. Maybe that's why several horn players (Sonny Rollins and Art Farmer leap to mind) worked with him without a pianist; he left plenty of spaces for them. So I began to look for ways to minimize what I play, rather than maximize it. The basic form of doing that is shell voicings, a tritone to cover 3rd and 7th, but it can also be done with other intervals such as major and minor 3rds. I realized I don't really need to always play the 3rd and 7th, and it forced me to listen more closely to what others are doing, and find a relevant niche.

The second thing that helped immensely was focusing on learning the tunes, and practicing things like the minimalist comping in the context of tunes, and trying them out playing with others at jam sessions. Some guitarists, I noticed in my limited experience, play too much, even during bass solos. So for me, I try to apply the maxim "less is better." A jam session is a happy medium between the wood shed and the gig stage. So at a jam, I'll trying limiting myself to comping with as few notes as possible, using, say one interval over as many bars as possible, focusing on rhythmic variety, until that interval wears out or no longer fits the harmonic context. Doing that in practical settings like jam sessions taught me about using upper extensions and how to think on my feet as the tune moves along through changes.

What I practiced less, to make room for the comping, is exercises and picking, an putting less emphasis on single lines, scales, runs, soloing, etc. After all, guitar is often a comping instrument first and a solo instrument second. So, first of all, I jettisoned picks altogether and played initially with thumb only, which made note choice and melody the prime focus. After a couple of years doing that I started to spontaneously integrate the other fingers. Not because I practiced that systematically but because I played it in the tunes at jam sessions.

And maybe that's the overall point, for me at least. With limited time it became necessary to focus on some things while leaving other things aside. To put it another way, we need to make a few choices if the option of unlimited choices is impractical. I deeply respect those who have mastered all manner of guitar skills, and I wish I had the time to do that. But the reality is, being in my mid-sixties, I want to get out there and have some fun playing jazz.

[pamosmusic]

I record myself often in practice but I’ve stopped doing it on gigs except when I want to get some social media footage.

Your reactions to your own recordings will be subjective and will change over time.


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I only record myself if I need to win an argument on JGO

[joe2758]

prove it

[Christian Miller]

I only record myself if I need to win an argument on JGO

The way I see it is that if I need to do that Ragman has in a sense won.


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[Irishmuso]

I'd love to know if there are any exercise or drill that you'd say made a huge difference?

1. Taking time to analyse and understand what someone who can actually play is trying to tell me, whether its in person, in a book,or on a video.
2. Emily Remler's explanation of the two types of dominants - resolving and non-resolving - and how to use melodic minor over them.
3. Pat Martino's Linear Expressions.

[John A.]

I don’t do it much anymore, but for a long time I warmed by playing the major scale and minor scales, single note and 4-note harmonized (chords and arpeggios) in all 12 keys, focusing on staying in time. I started doing this with a teacher who also had me do strict alternate picking. That cleaned up my picking and got me to know the fretboard well (though the strict alternate picking didn’t stick). Here and there I’ve done other scale/exercise stuff, but not consistently in ages.

The thing that has made the most difference in my playing is having regular playing situations with other people. I’d go even further and say that once I got beyond a certain basic level of playing ability that’s the only thing that has made a difference.

[Cunamara]

Guide tones. For soloing, one of the most important things you can learn. Your solo should sound like it's part of the song.

[lawson-stone]

For me it was learning the solos in the Jimmy Raney volume of the Aebersold series. We did them on a study group here and I saw more, and more durable, improvement in my playing during that time than any time since.