How do you 'think' when playing something in Mixolydian or Dorian?

[Bob_Ross]

For Mixolydian he ...[snip]... sometimes tries to play something using the Bebop Scale or Half-Whole Dim Scale (but these are both used really sparingly)

Well, if he's not thinking strict Mixolydian I would question what the value of thinking about it as "Mixolydian" is.

For me, that's usually the first --- and, often, the last -- thing I "think" about: How strictly tonal/diatonic/constrained is this section I'm improvising over? If the determination is Very Strict, then I restrict myself to the pitches of the Mixolydian collection and try to come up with a melody that sounds musical and interesting.*

Conversely, if the determination is Not Very Strict, then I don't restrict myself to the pitches of the Mixolydian collection, and I'll use all the pitch collections and scales and melodic devices I know for taking material farther out from the tonal center (and then back again)...but I'm still just trying to come up with a melody that sounds musical and interesting.

I don't think I've ever micromanaged an improvisation to the point where I'm thinking about devices in terms of two, three, or four-note fragments. (Motifs, yes; devices, no.)

But maybe that's why my solos suck.

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*Hint: Look to the tune's melody for suggestions so you're not just starting out with a blank slate every time.

[ragman1]

Hasnt he said several times that he’s talking about funk-fusion sort of vamps?

He only said that in #21.

When we were disucssing it, it was definitely more in a sort of 'funky/groovy' kind of vibe as opposed to a swing feel or blues feel.

How do you 'think' when playing something in Mixolydian or Dorian?

What makes you think I missed it? And what's wrong with my question? Why do you think context just means some funky backing track?

There's a bit more to context than playing to a random groovy backing. Or don't you think so? You can doodle all day long to a particular groove but what happens when there's a tune? What are some tunes that have extended funky vamps in them? Does he use them or is it all just an exercise?

I'd like to hear what Jamie can do. Good lord, he's posted enough 'help me' threads to last a lifetime. I've never heard any results from him. Let's hear the results of all those posts giving out reams of advice.

Of course, if all he's doing is sitting in his room fiddling with endless ideas then so be it. The way I'm answering him is going to be too serious for him, I suppose.

[pamosmusic]

What makes you think I missed it?

Asking again mostly.

I'd like to hear what Jamie can do. Good lord, he's posted enough 'help me' threads to last a lifetime. I've never heard any results from him. Let's hear the results of all those posts giving out reams of advice.

You seem to require rather more than I do. I’ll keep spouting off with no assurance whatsoever that anyone is putting it to use. You could always consider just not doing that if it bothers you?

Of course, if all he's doing is sitting in his room fiddling with endless ideas then so be it. The way I'm answering him is going to be too serious for him, I suppose.

Can’t wait. Advice from a true artiste, most welcome.

[mr. beaumont]

Nope, it was post #1.

[alltunes]

If you have dabbled in “jam band” music you will know that having the ability to “noodle” over a static dominant chord is a mainstay of the genre.

[jamiehenderson1993]

When it comes to vamps I usually feel the need to use some sort of harmonic movement in there. So I might superimpose some other chord progressions on top. For example, if I’m playing on D7 I might use Eb7 to D7.


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Christian, could I ask you to expand on what you mean by this? I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to this stuff - do you mean playing notes of an Eb7 arpeggio then D7 arpeggio? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

[jamiehenderson1993]

I'll tell ya one thing i do the SHIT out of on a minor vamp, is superimpose a ii V.

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but could you explain a little bit more about what you mean here? Do you mean you'd play notes of the arpeggio of the ii chord then V chord? Sorry, again, if that's a stupid question.

[pamosmusic]

Christian, could I ask you to expand on what you mean by this? I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to this stuff - do you mean playing notes of an Eb7 arpeggio then D7 arpeggio? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

could be a lot of things but that would be the most common — switching your D7 in and out with some kind of dominant, usually A7, Eb7 or some other way of realizing that.

diatonic chords can also be really nice. Like instead of D7, play with Am7 for a while, or Em7

[Christian Miller]

Christian, could I ask you to expand on what you mean by this? I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to this stuff - do you mean playing notes of an Eb7 arpeggio then D7 arpeggio? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

Yeah just Eb7 stuff. Arpeggios, scales, arpeggios belonging to the scales, and so on.

Here’s a video I did a while back on constructing lines on vamps like this

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[mr. beaumont]

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but could you explain a little bit more about what you mean here? Do you mean you'd play notes of the arpeggio of the ii chord then V chord? Sorry, again, if that's a stupid question.

Not a dumb question at all. That's exactly what i mean...

I think i do it a bunch here:

[buduranus2]

Christian, could I ask you to expand on what you mean by this? I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to this stuff - do you mean playing notes of an Eb7 arpeggio then D7 arpeggio? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

I need to get my eyes checked. When you said "caveman" I read it as "Caravan" which is the/an answer. So from D7 to Eb7 G harmonic minor would seem to work.

[John A.]

I don't play vamps or static chords. I play songs. Now some songs happen to have passages that stay on a single chord for a while or vamp, so obviously I do actually play over static chords and vamps, but what I play is informed more by the overall tune or the vibe I'm going for than by a particular scale or pitch collection. So to even begin to answer the question I'd need to know what song(s) OP is thinking about. The A section of Caravan, the interlude in In Your Own Sweet Way, the vamp in Wave, So What, etc.? All are different.

As to the "what are you thinking about?" part of the question ... when I'm practicing, I try all kinds of scales, inside/outside tactics, motivic development, arps, subs, etc. as a means of getting their sounds into my mind/ears/hands for future recall. When I'm playing with other people, I might consciously tell myself to try something, but mostly not. I'm mostly just thinking about the feel (bluesy, inside/outside, pretty, etc), overall shape of solo, the form, band interaction, and letting the notes happen (audiate->play) without thinking about what they are or where they came from theoretically.

[RobSilver7]

Just about everyone, at some point in their development, grabs on to scales to play over a vamp. But if you focus on thinking up interesting melodies (melodies that describe chord movements) you will feel freer and more musical. Under the hood, you’d be thinking “What chords am I describing” not “What scales am I playing?”. This way you can go inside and outside of the comfortable place of the vamp.

[supersoul]

Not a dumb question at all. That's exactly what i mean...

I think i do it a bunch here:

Damn!