Summer of Rhythm … Changes?

[Christian Miller]

Lester wouldn’t bother with IV


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[AllanAllen]

Kind of the Lester young vibe, I guess?

Yeah, Lester Young, Charlie Christian, Barney Kessell

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, Lester Young, Charlie Christian, Barney Kessell

I have not transcribed nearly enough of two out of those three.

(or any, actually)

[AllanAllen]

I have not transcribed nearly enough of two out of those three.

(or any, actually)

I try to copy the solo in real time to get an idea of what they’re doing. I’ll do a video sometime showing my sloppy ass transcription technique. Maybe next week. Now I’m the one at a beach.

[pamosmusic]

Now I’m the one at a beach.

Good man

[Bobby Timmons]

Some No Mo for ya.

[pamosmusic]

He says to treat the A section like 1-4-1-5. Can anyone tell me what measures he is treating as which?

Oh I missed this.

I -- IV -- I -- V
I -- IV -- I -- V

So that's one measure of each, run through twice over the eight measure A section.

[buduranus2]

All this is well over my head. Undaunted, here's my take on rhythm changes from some time ago. I was really huffing and puffing just to keep up. Even so it was fun to give it a shot.

[AllanAllen]

All this is well over my head. Undaunted, here's my take on rhythm changes from some time ago. I was really huffing and puffing just to keep up. Even so it was fun to give it a shot.

This is really nice, it sounds like jazz lines and not mindless meandering. I could learn a thing or two from you

[mr. beaumont]

All this is well over my head. Undaunted, here's my take on rhythm changes from some time ago. I was really huffing and puffing just to keep up. Even so it was fun to give it a shot.

You're swinging hard and sounding great.

[buduranus2]

This is really nice, it sounds like jazz lines and not mindless meandering. I could learn a thing or two from you

Thanks very much for your compliments and encouragement. My goal is, as you put it, to "sound like jazz lines." Not only the sound but the feel. In this regard what I try to do is capture what life was like back when you'd be walking down the street and hear some cool jazz coming out of a club and decide to stop in for a drink. As for my approach, such as it is, I look at rhythm changes as blues. It's all turnarounds (or cycle of fourths if you want to look at it that way.) Even the A section, if you play iii instead of I. Throw in a bit of chromaticism and now you've got jazz. Appreciate you!

You're swinging hard and sounding great.

Jeff, you put a big smile on this old man's face. On reflection, I'd say I have one foot firmly planted in the "pre-bop" era with some basic understanding and application of bop language. I especially value that the swing feel came through for you. In closing, your perspectives mean the world to me, and thanks for taking the time to listen so closely!

[pamosmusic]

Busy summer so it's going a bit slower than anticipated ...

This one for my pass through with the following:

I - - - -
I7 - iv - I - V7

[AllanAllen]

I heard a little oleo a hair before 50 seconds. Nice!

[charlieparker]

I took Christian and Jeff's advice to just play Bb over the A section.

Rhythm Changes

[AllanAllen]

I took Christian and Jeff's advice to just play Bb over the A section.

Rhythm Changes

I gave that a listen, I hope this comes off as constructive criticism. I think you should probably learn some blues heads. It sounds like you are wandering and not really saying anything.


I made a playlist of 5 that I think are easy, or lay well on the guitar. I hope it helps.

Jazz Blues: Where to Start - YouTube

[charlieparker]

I took Christian and Jeff's advice to just play Bb over the A section.

Rhythm Changes

I gave that a listen, I hope this comes off as constructive criticism. I think you should probably learn some blues heads. It sounds like you are wandering and not really saying anything.


I made a playlist of 5 that I think are easy, or lay well on the guitar. I hope it helps.

Jazz Blues: Where to Start - YouTube

Thanks for listening. Personally, there were parts that I liked and parts where it fell apart for me. For instance, I sort of liked the first 47 seconds or so of the first two times through the A section and the first B section. After that, I kind of lost my way. And then again the last minute starting at 2:30 sounded decent to me.

I've played a lot of blues iny time so I am not sure how that will help, but I'll check out your playlist.

[AllanAllen]

Well, blues means a lot of things. For me, playing jazz with a blues feel is all Lester Young. The irony that he's not on the playlist I sent doesn't escape me.

[pamosmusic]

I gave that a listen, I hope this comes off as constructive criticism. I think you should probably learn some blues heads. It sounds like you are wandering and not really saying anything.


I made a playlist of 5 that I think are easy, or lay well on the guitar. I hope it helps.

Jazz Blues: Where to Start - YouTube

Wouldnt let me listen to Mr Parker’s link but that would be pretty decent advice no matter the recipient

[pamosmusic]

I heard a little oleo a hair before 50 seconds. Nice!

Ah nice!

Yeah in my head that was an extended quote and listening back it was barely there. But apparently it showed up!

[pamosmusic]

I took Christian and Jeff's advice to just play Bb over the A section.

Rhythm Changes

Thats what I was doing on my recording too. Though I guess if I have that much tonic, I tend to move around a bit.

[pamosmusic]

A few keys into phase 3:

I V7 I V7
I7 #ivo I V7

[pamosmusic]

So I figured I might try and show some of the stuff that I'm working on with this.

So here, I'm in the key of D, and I'm working on m5-8. So that's D7 - G#o7 - D6 - A7. I'll pick a place on the guitar, usually not more than an octave. Here I'm playing from the F# on the fourth string to the G# on the second string because I wanted a note on that string for my diminished chord. Then I pick what I want to try and use over each chord. Lately I've been working on some of the quadrads a la Jordan Klemons. Though I don't really use them correctly I don't guess. Here I'm using:

D with an added 2, so D E F# A
G#o with an added b2, so G# A B D
and A with an added b2, so A Bb C# E

A lot of the time I'll try working in even smaller chunks than that single octave. In this video, I'm only really using two strings.

I play over drum genius a lot. Here it's set for about 250.

I started just getting used to the shapes themselves where I'm playing them. From there I started with the plain triads, started adding some approach notes, added in the fourth notes, then got more chromatic with the approaches.

This sort of practice isn't really supposed to give me beautiful melodies. I think of it the way a batter on deck will put the weights on the end of his bat while he's loosening up. That would be silly to take to the plate, but when he kicks them off, the bat feels much much lighter. That's a bit how this feels a lot of the time. And this isn't how I'd practice a lot of stuff, but I've been trying to work on being more rhythmic and less eighth-notey, so it works pretty well.

[CliffR]

So I figured I might try and show some of the stuff that I'm working on with this.

So here, I'm in the key of D, and I'm working on m5-8. So that's D7 - G#o7 - D6 - A7. I'll pick a place on the guitar, usually not more than an octave. Here I'm playing from the F# on the fourth string to the G# on the second string because I wanted a note on that string for my diminished chord. Then I pick what I want to try and use over each chord. Lately I've been working on some of the quadrads a la Jordan Klemons. Though I don't really use them correctly I don't guess. Here I'm using:

D with an added 2, so D E F# A
G#o with an added b2, so G# A B D
and A with an added b2, so A Bb C# E

A lot of the time I'll try working in even smaller chunks than that single octave. In this video, I'm only really using two strings.

I play over drum genius a lot. Here it's set for about 250.

I started just getting used to the shapes themselves where I'm playing them. From there I started with the plain triads, started adding some approach notes, added in the fourth notes, then got more chromatic with the approaches.

This sort of practice isn't really supposed to give me beautiful melodies. I think of it the way a batter on deck will put the weights on the end of his bat while he's loosening up. That would be silly to take to the plate, but when he kicks them off, the bat feels much much lighter. That's a bit how this feels a lot of the time. And this isn't how I'd practice a lot of stuff, but I've been trying to work on being more rhythmic and less eighth-notey, so it works pretty well.

Nice! I've been trying a very similar exercise with the Chi Chi changes, but with a much more modest tempo of 180bpm. Still struggling to nail the chord tones at the moment, but the approach notes will come in time.

[pamosmusic]

Nice! I've been trying a very similar exercise with the Chi Chi changes, but with a much more modest tempo of 180bpm. Still struggling to nail the chord tones at the moment, but the approach notes will come in time.

Yeah I’m not playing 250 because it’s comfortable. 220-240 gets a little tricky. And sometimes it helps to just kind of jump out ahead and play fast. I don’t know.

Sometimes I work things up from slow and other times it works a little better to just floor it

[Christian Miller]

Been preparing materials for a forthcoming Rhythm Changes Deep Lore vid. Here are some basslines for you.

According to Ethan Iverson, chord symbols predate many of these tunes so players were used to coming up with chords from the bassline. No idea what that reminds me of. In any case, bass lines weren't as improvised Bach then, but usually much more set. However as Ethan points out the great veteran bass players like Ron Carter still play these classic sorts of lines, esp for 2 feels. The (early) Bill Evans example shows this logic applied to modern jazz.


Here's the head for the Bill Evans A section. It's a sort of spin and old school Benny Goodman style swing riff, in 5:4. I also have a collection of rhythm changes riffs if anyones' interested