Making the solid body guitar sound acoustic with palm-muting.

[brent.h]

I was just messing around with my solid body playing the left-hand, boom-chick march rhythm of ragtime pianists.

Of course, it didn't sound good with all them notes ringing.

Even when I lifted my fretting hand to silence the notes for that pulse-y feel, it didn't sound right, so I simply palm-muted everything with my right hand to approximate that percussive sound of an acoustic instrument.

I noticed how thumpy the 'boom' bass notes were (beats 1 and 3) and how banjo-y the 'chick' chords sounded (beats 2 and 4).

Then, I tried palm-muting my four-to-the-floor, two-note Freddie Green guide tones. Wow. I loved the percussiveness. Sustain was dramatically reduced.

Has anyone used this technique to substitute for an acoustic instrument while doing pre-bop comping?

I know there can be no real substitute, but I'm curious if anyone here has used it extensively for gigs/jams.

Edit: I see that there are some YouTube videos on making the electric bass sound like an upright. I wonder if this is sorta possible for electric guitar.

[pauln]

Yes, it's amazing isn't it. I do muting/damping all the time, but differently.

Palm muting is placing the fleshy underside edge of the hand (the area located below the fourth finger) on the strings near the bridge. To not over dampen the strings you have to be quite close to the bridge.

I do right hand muting but I don't do palm muting for a couple of reasons:

- it forces picking too close to the bridge; although the damping mitigates part of the increased tinny tone when picking there. The optimum quality of string tone comes from initiating the sound at 1/7 its length from a termination (this was discovered by piano makers ages ago regarding the placement of the hammers, it has to do with how the harmonic balance of the string sets up) which on my three pickup guitar means picking just a little in front of the middle pickup (between the mid and neck pickups). A palm mute does not work there (or rather works way too much an cuts the sound).

- my hands learned by themselves a very long time ago how to damp the strings I did not want to sound; both left and right hands conspire together to accomplish this. In addition, my picking hand uses some degree of muting for tone in all sounds I play; chords and series of notes. The fleshy underside edge below the thumb is what I use, and the degree of application is variable but overall very light and subtle. Palm muting proper interferes with the native method my right hand taught itself long ago.

- palm damping is kind of a deliberate decided on or off thing in actual use (I think?) whereas my thumb-base damping is always going on to some degree all by itself.

But that's just me ... more on making solid bodies sound more acoustic:

- use a lighter pick; the main sound of an acoustic or arch top is the sound of the strings "winning" over the pick. That is the sound of minimum anomalies in the string (twang and buzz)... the bigger strings are resistant to these things, but a solid body may be using lighter strings and need a lighter pick to preserve the strings winning over the pick.

- lowering the pickups way down makes the sensed length of the strings longer, the tone more complex, like the effect of the complexity of distances between surfaces inside a hollow body. (Also the reason for the paradox that lowering the middle PU that some people do to get it out of the way for picking results in the tones of the middle combined with either of the others becoming "super quack", for those that have been searching for that.)

[brent.h]

First of all, what a great write-up. This has given me some ideas about how I might want to refine this technique.

...it forces picking too close to the bridge

Yeah, this is the thing I'm trying to get a feel for - the picking placement. I'm taking my time to find the right spot that my ears like and is at the same time ergonomic and comfortable.

my hands learned... how to damp... Palm muting proper interferes with the native method...

palm damping is kind of a deliberate decided on or off thing in actual use (I think?) whereas my thumb-base damping is always going on to some degree all by itself.

Same. You and I both use similar picking (circular) and damping techniques. My preference for the palm-muting is strictly for comping only. I wouldn't dare use this for single notes.

use a lighter pick...the sound of the strings "winning" over the pick... a solid body may be using lighter strings and need a lighter pick to preserve the strings winning over the pick.

Agree on strings 'winning'. This is central to the Chuck Wayne technique.

I use a Jazz III, 1.14mm. Strings, 10-46 gauge. Are these light enough?

lowering the pickups way down makes the sensed length of the strings longer, the tone more complex, like the effect of the complexity of distances between surfaces inside a hollow body. (Also the reason for the paradox that lowering the middle PU that some people do to get it out of the way for picking results in the tones of the middle combined with either of the others becoming "super quack", for those that have been searching for that.)

What a coincidence.

I jack my neck pickup really high to get volumes on par with loud tenor sax players. And I lower my middle pickup way down, slightly below the surface of the body. This was to create a 'guitar pedal' of sorts. So I'd switch the selector to position 5 for single notes and position 3 for comping or Freddie Green stuff. This made it easy and convenient for me to cut the volume when I need to.

Just some hours ago, I discovered that position 4 (neck and middle) with some palm-muting made for really nice tones when doing boom-chick rhythms.

And I stopped for a while to mess around with single notes with this same selector position. Well, what do you know. My guitar sounded like it had quite a nice P90 tone going on! I couldn't believe my ears. The neck pickup is quite high so you don't get much of that guitar sound, but on the middle pickup is so low that it gets so much of that guitar tone. The combination of the 2 pickups was quite a pleasant surprise.

[pauln]

I use a Jazz III, 1.14mm. Strings, 10-46 gauge. Are these light enough?

I've moved from 2 to 1 to .88 to .73mm (Nylon), still on 10-46. Some times it feels peculiar to have a Twin up at half volume playing low in a quiet cozy place where the conversation may be the loudest sound. Trio gets to play outside this Saturday!

The change to .73mm was the most impact; I liked it right off and have only grown to like it more. Every once in a while I'll use a 1mm for a minute and wonder, "How I was ever able to play anything with it?"; it's .73 for me now, I'm hooked and happy.

[alltunes]

I've moved from 2 to 1 to .88 to .73mm (Nylon), still on 10-46. Some times it feels peculiar to have a Twin up at half volume playing low in a quiet cozy place where the conversation may be the loudest sound. Trio gets to play outside this Saturday!

The change to .73mm was the most impact; I liked it right off and have only grown to like it more. Every once in a while I'll use a 1mm for a minute and wonder, "How I was ever able to play anything with it?"; it's .73 for me now, I'm hooked and happy.

That was my pick of choice back in the 80’s into the 90’s on rock n roll electric. then I got into flatpicking mandolin and guitar where a thick slab of a pick is de rigueur. I’ve stuck with that out of habit but perhaps I should rethink for electric guitar (11’s) Probably still have some nylon .73s lying around.

[Uffe Steen]

Search Herco picks . They are around. I’ve used and use them still