Pick vs Pluck (video demo)

[Mark Kleinhaut]

The discussion on another thread about this inspired me to record a demonstration this morning where I basically toggle back and forth between plectrum and fingerstyle to showcase how these techniques align with various musical ideas.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

The discussion on another thread about this inspired me to record a demonstration this morning where I basically toggle back and forth between plectrum and fingerstyle to showcase how these techniques align with various musical ideas.

I just thought this might be better than only talking about it.

[Mick-7]

The discussion on another thread about this inspired me to record a demonstration this morning where I basically toggle back and forth between plectrum and fingerstyle to showcase how these techniques align with various musical ideas.

Seems you countered what you said in the other thread:

Did I mention I love fingerpicking? Seems I can only keep a plectrum in my hand for 10 seconds before I put it back down.

That is, you shattered your 10 second rule in this video, but what I find particularly annoying is that you can express your ideas as well with a pick as without one.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Seems you countered what you said in the other thread:



That is, you shattered your 10 second rule in this video, but what I find particularly annoying is that you can express your ideas as well with a pick as without one.

I’m a little annoyed too about how hard it is to abandon the pick. Decades of inertia perhaps, but there are still some musical things that simply don’t work for me without it. So I say yuk, but hang in to it anyway. I’d love to hear anyone say they prefer how I play with the pick- though I won’t believe it- and it’s my choice anyway. Most days during practice I don’t even have a pick near me.

[deacon Mark]

I like the pick just bit better because the definition is there that fingers simply do not have. To me the easiest example of hearing and understanding is to listen to Pat Martino. His sound and lines with the pick have never in estimation been matched by someone playing with fingers. It is all in the the dynamics much like EQ. I could tell immediately when you went to the pick as I typed this response.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I

I like the pick just bit better because the definition is there that fingers simply do not have. To me the easiest example of hearing and understanding is to listen to Pat Martino. His sound and lines with the pick have never in estimation been matched by someone playing with fingers. It is all in the the dynamics much like EQ. I could tell immediately when you went to the pick as I typed this response.

.

I can’t think of anyone leveling up to Martino’s articulation with a plectrum either (let alone fingerstyle). His sound was/is unique and incomparable. On the other hand, I never think of his artistry as orchestral, contrapuntal or even particularly chordal. Pat’s a supreme example of guitar as “horn” vs pianistic.

[emanresu]

I like plucking more. More intimidate. Inimate. Intimate.
But also, when playing chords, the plucking allows to have exactly 4 options of what note gets emphasized - this is not a small thing.

[pamosmusic]

I like plucking more. More intimidate. Inimate. Intimate.
But also, when playing chords, the plucking allows to have exactly 4 options of what note gets emphasized - this is not a small thing.

Pick and three fingers, yes?

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Pick and three fingers, yes?

Hybrid picking? If you have pinky power then that’s possible. I use hybrid all the time if I’m using a pick but the pick uses up the thumb and index which are power fingers when fingerpicking, no?

[Mick-7]

Hybrid picking? If you have pinky power then that’s possible. I use hybrid all the time if I’m using a pick but the pick uses up the thumb and index which are power fingers when fingerpicking, no?

That's why some players, e.g., Lorne Lofsky, use a thumb pick, it leaves all your other fingers free.

[GuyBoden]

I pick fingerstyle with all five fingers.

I blame this book:

[Mick-7]

I pick fingerstyle with all five fingers.

I blame this book:

Gee, that cover would scare me away from it! How does the cigar fit in? (or is it a kazoo?)

Never have your guitar instruction book artwork designed by someone whose specialty is horror movie poster art!

[emanresu]

I have stared at my pinky often. But it doesn't want to evolve. Doesn't want to participate in evolution of the guitar. Or evolution in general.

Now I saw your book. I don't want to read it! It is too late, I'm too old for this!

[spencer096]

I’m a little annoyed too about how hard it is to abandon the pick. Decades of inertia perhaps, but there are still some musical things that simply don’t work for me without it. So I say yuk, but hang in to it anyway. I’d love to hear anyone say they prefer how I play with the pick- though I won’t believe it- and it’s my choice anyway. Most days during practice I don’t even have a pick near me.

i couldnt tell from the vid...do you use nails for fingerpicking?

[Mark Kleinhaut]

i couldnt tell from the vid...do you use nails for fingerpicking?

Yes,? Thanks for your question. I try to keep them in the short side, but not to the extreme.

[mbrahammar]

The discussion on another thread about this inspired me to record a demonstration this morning where I basically toggle back and forth between plectrum and fingerstyle to showcase how these techniques align with various musical ideas.

?Thanks for the very well made video and the beautiful playing. You have a beautiful sound with both, the pick sounds fat and warm (by the way what pick are you using?) and the fingerstyle sounds airy and articulate, without being brittle.


Personally I think one should try to master both techniques as much as possible instead of necessarily have to chose one or the other. Especially when playing my own music I've realized more and more that, in order to execute it in the most articulate way, I really have to use fingerstyle on certain situations and pick in others, as well as hybrid picking where for example the switch has to occur so quickly that I simply don't have time to tuck away the pick as I usually do (and this can be sometimes just really short melodic phrases between more chordal passes).


I've started to accept the fact that the right choice (for me) is to daily practise all these different techniques (alternate picking, legato, economy picking, hybrid picking, and some classical guitar as well as steel string fingerpicking). The more and more I do this I realize that when encountering different musical situations I'm more adequately prepared for them, switching quite intuitively back and forth. I also think that the difference in sound and articulation are after all tools of expression, as opposed to have only "one uniform voice at all times".


I'me sure this, as everything else, may be subject to revision over time... :-D

[Mark Kleinhaut]

?Thanks for the very well made video and the beautiful playing. You have a beautiful sound with both, the pick sounds fat and warm (by the way what pick are you using?) and the fingerstyle sounds airy and articulate, without being brittle.


Personally I think one should try to master both techniques as much as possible instead of necessarily have to chose one or the other. Especially when playing my own music I've realized more and more that, in order to execute it in the most articulate way, I really have to use fingerstyle on certain situations and pick in others, as well as hybrid picking where for example the switch has to occur so quickly that I simply don't have time to tuck away the pick as I usually do (and this can be sometimes just really short melodic phrases between more chordal passes).


I've started to accept the fact that the right choice (for me) is to daily practise all these different techniques (alternate picking, legato, economy picking, hybrid picking, and some classical guitar as well as steel string fingerpicking). The more and more I do this I realize that when encountering different musical situations I'm more adequately prepared for them, switching quite intuitively back and forth. I also think that the difference in sound and articulation are after all tools of expression, as opposed to have only "one uniform voice at all times".


I'me sure this, as everything else, may be subject to revision over time... :-D

I share your thoughts on this almost exactly. The analogy that comes to mind is the artist’s kit filled with many sizes and shapes of brushes, knives, sponges etc. Why impose limits or constraint our options? I suppose there’s the old jack of all trades master of none. Or that it’s just so time consuming to really master anything, a narrow focus caries your farther. I still agree that a broad range of tools is better than not, but preferences do take hold at different phases of our lives and I think that’s just fine. I’m definitely fingerpicking most of the time these days, so care must be taken to avoid rust and cobwebs. Thanks for share your thoughts.

[skykomishone]

I've had to guess at what John Stowell is doing, switching subtly between. Gave up trying and just listen. But I'm always curious if some players use magic tricks because of that. Almost like velcro or glue.

[Dave_E]

Check me if I’m mistaken, but I never heard (or saw) him play the exact same piece with a pick and then with fingers. It was one continuous flow of music just switching back and forth between pick and fingers. I also did not see any hybrid pick, fingers action which leads me to my question/observation about jazz guitar music. As a player only, I rely on other's artistic work on paper, be they actual guitarists or some other instrument and then adapted for guitar. I have seen music written that looks like it was for a pick, i.e. all strings ever played (from 1 to 6) are never separated by un-played strings and in my opinion most of the music for jazz guitar is not that way.

I’ve been searching for the easy answer and there isn’t one. If you are a pick only person, you have to change the music to accommodate your technique, even if it means raking over a deadened string. If you’re a fingers only, you have no problems playing the music as written, but you’ll never get that “pick sound” if and when it would be desirable. Hybrid has its issues as well… heavy pick, weak fingers, sound imbalance yada, yada, yada.

I’ve seen it written and read to much on the forum… I think too many aspiring jazz players see one of the savant artist greats playing and try to copy the style/technique and will be frustrated trying to do so. That artist you’re trying to sound like could do things that very few others ever could. That’s where I’m at in my young jazz guitar journey. Since I have a classical guitar background… guess you know where I’m headed.