Developing Major Chord Vocab By Practising the Major Scale?

[jamiehenderson1993]

I'm trying to develop my fluency when playing the Major Scale (giving me 'ideas' to play when soloing).
Some of the ideas I've shedded are:

• Major Scales in Subdivisions (All Positions)
• Major Scale 3, 4 & 5 in a row and Major Scale Sequences of 3 (1-3-5, 2-4-6, 3-5-7)
• Major Scale in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths etc.
• Major Scale w/ String Skipping
• Mixing Major Scale w/. Major Pent
• Major Scale on 1 String
• Major Scale on String Pairs & String Triples
• Play the Major Scale but double pick each note (then triple pick)
• Mixing Major Scale with notes of the arpeggio (as well as playing Diatonic 1-3-5, 2-4-6 etc)
• Then just playing / jamming over changes trying to use some of this to see what comes out.

Obviously this is endless, and I don't want to get lost in technical practice, but I'm looking for advice on where to go next with this (or if I need to change course!).

I've also had it suggested to take an existing melody I like and turn that into an exercise to allow me to develop that melody during my solo?
From there I guess the next thing is chromaticism and enclosures?

Any help massively appreciated.

[Reg]

Typically I've always used this simple approach... (for almost everything in music).

Have a (1) Reference... In your example, developing Maj. Chord Vocab.

Start with... what is your "Reference" for Maj. Chord. A Triad, 7th chord etc.

Say your using Maj.7th with an Ionian "Reference", Cma7 with Ionian extensions 9,11,13.

Now create (2) Relationships with that (1) Reference, the Cma7.

Example could be Functional Relationships. Which is just guidelines of what notes want to do and which notes have the most weight or power in Functional contexts. The Tonic, Subdom and Dom. organization.
Say melodic Functional Relationships.

With Ionian Major Chords generally we're implying Tonic or at rest, where notes want to go or become relaxed etc. So example of Relationship could be simple Dominant melodic functional relationship.
Ex. Bar of Cmaj7, a bar of G7 and two bars of Cma7. //Cma7 / G7/ Cmaj7 / Cmaj7// 4 bar phrase.

Now you apply the last or 3rd part of this approach.... you (3) Develop the (2) Relationship,( with the (1) Reference.

So you have a lick or melodic idea for the Cmaj7 chord. Use a simple rhythmic pattern so you can move the target note of the lick or melodic idea around and keep the rhythmic pattern the same... now do the same with the G7 chord. And then resolve of make the last two bars of Cmaj7 become relaxed and finished.
Then change the notes around. for the Cmaj chord. Endless possibilities, but you'll begin to hear what seems to work better etc... and what you like.

Now change the G7 chord to a G-9 chord... Your changing the (2) Relationship with the (1) Reference and the results of... (3) the Development will open more doors.

Where this is going is... eventually your going to hear Chord Patterns and your improve of Melodic Chord
Vocab. will expand into Melodic Chord Pattern Vocab.

Which help get out of the vanilla thing... more in the direction of Jazz Vocab.

[wolflen]

I'm trying to develop my fluency when playing the Major Scale (giving me 'ideas' to play when soloing).
Some of the ideas I've shedded are:

• Major Scales in Subdivisions (All Positions)
• Major Scale 3, 4 & 5 in a row and Major Scale Sequences of 3 (1-3-5, 2-4-6, 3-5-7)
• Major Scale in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths etc.
• Major Scale w/ String Skipping
• Mixing Major Scale w/. Major Pent
• Major Scale on 1 String
• Major Scale on String Pairs & String Triples
• Play the Major Scale but double pick each note (then triple pick)
• Mixing Major Scale with notes of the arpeggio (as well as playing Diatonic 1-3-5, 2-4-6 etc)
• Then just playing / jamming over changes trying to use some of this to see what comes out.

Obviously this is endless, and I don't want to get lost in technical practice, but I'm looking for advice on where to go next with this (or if I need to change course!).

I've also had it suggested to take an existing melody I like and turn that into an exercise to allow me to develop that melody during my solo?
From there I guess the next thing is chromaticism and enclosures?

Any help massively appreciated.

Good start..now apply some of this in your solos .. if you can record progressions of tunes..this helps ALOT !

Other things to study..Melodic Patterns.. Ex: scale notes 2 3 1 5 on each scale degree .. so for Dmin it would be E F D A
learn them in all positions and all keys..there are a hundreds of them..have fun!

[princeplanet]

Jamie, out of curiosity, what kind of Jazz do you listen to? What players do you admire? Who would you like to sound like? Are you into Bop? Hard Bop? Post Bop? Modern? Something else? Are you also into comping? You interested in playing Standards? Or original compositions?

I feel that knowing a little bit about where you're coming from might help people on the forum offering advice about not only what to practice, but what not to ... Take it from me, you can actually waste years practicing non essential stuff that won't even make it into your eventual playing style.

[jameslovestal]

Jamie, out of curiosity, what kind of Jazz do you listen to? What players do you admire? Who would you like to sound like? Are you into Bop? Hard Bop? Post Bop? Modern? Something else? Are you also into comping? You interested in playing Standards? Or original compositions?

I feel that knowing a little bit about where you're coming from might help people on the forum offering advice about not only what to practice, but what not to ... Take it from me, you can actually waste years practicing non essential stuff that won't even make it into your eventual playing style.

Solid questions. As mentioned, many times on this forum, targeted practice is the way to go (unless one just has so much free time because their parents or spouse pays the bills).

[jamiehenderson1993]

Jamie, out of curiosity, what kind of Jazz do you listen to? What players do you admire? Who would you like to sound like? Are you into Bop? Hard Bop? Post Bop? Modern? Something else? Are you also into comping? You interested in playing Standards? Or original compositions?

I feel that knowing a little bit about where you're coming from might help people on the forum offering advice about not only what to practice, but what not to ... Take it from me, you can actually waste years practicing non essential stuff that won't even make it into your eventual playing style.

Great question. I'll be honest & say I'm still fairly 'green' when it comes to Jazz. I'm very much enjoying the learning process with no expectations.
My favourite albums at this moment are: Soul Station - Hank Mobley; Study in Brown - Clifford Brown; Clasico - Moignard, Bergara; Somethin' Else - Cannonball Adderley; & Stan Getz and the Oscar Peterson Trio - the orange album!.

I love comping, but I'm very much still at the 'shell chord' stage (not really sure where to go...).

I'm primarily interested in the Blues, Jazz-Blues as well as Standards for the moment.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for asking.

[pamosmusic]

My favourite albums at this moment are: Soul Station - Hank Mobley; Study in Brown - Clifford Brown; Clasico - Moignard, Bergara; Somethin' Else - Cannonball Adderley; & Stan Getz and the Oscar Peterson Trio - the orange album!.

I don’t know Clasico, but otherwise these are the objectively correct answers. Nice work.

[wolflen]

Great question. I'll be honest & say I'm still fairly 'green' when it comes to Jazz. I'm very much enjoying the learning process with no expectations.


I'm primarily interested in the Blues, Jazz-Blues as well as Standards for the moment.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for asking.

Ahh..Kenny Burrell is a must listen..Midnight Blue

[pamosmusic]

Ahh..Kenny Burrell is a must listen..Midnight Blue

Yeah Kenny Burrell and Grant Green would be the bridge between the straight ahead jazz and the straightahead blues. Goldmine.

[jameslovestal]

Yeah Kenny Burrell and Grant Green would be the bridge between the straight ahead jazz and the straightahead blues. Goldmine.

I got so much playing along with this recording as it relates to that bridge.

[starjasmine]

You are standing at the edge of an ocean that you want to cross and asking questions about shipbuilding, swimming, and fluid dynamics. What you really need is to learn to swim and to find plans for a simple boat or raft that you can build with the tools and materials that you already have at hand. Those plans are the recorded solos of the greats who have gone before you.

What to do next is to learn a few bars of a solo that is not beyond your current capabilities. The "not beyond your current capabilities" part is important. Dont make transcribing Oscar Peterson or Art Tatum your first project. Pick something easy - you want to learn to APPLY some of what you know already, rather than to get lost in a rathole of technical practice that takes years to bear fruit. Try to set a goal of getting some sort of concrete result in a month. At that point, you can decide whether to keep working on that particular project or to declare that you've learned something and choose another goal to pursue.

Doesn't matter whether you write it down, just memorize it, or even get it perfect. Just trying to do this will improve your conception of each style, teach you some vocabulary/licks that you can reuse, likely present a techical challenge that you'll need to solve in order to play the piece, and improve your ear-mind-fingers connection.

Do this for one song in each of your three categories: blues, jazz blues and standards, which are three different vocabularies and in some cases three different mechanical techniques. For example, Freddie King plays blues differently than Jimmy Bruno plays jazz blues differently than Joe Pass plays standards. A realistic goal would be to choose one example of one of these styles to learn as an initial project.

HTH

SJ

[pamosmusic]

I got so much playing along with this recording as it relates to that bridge.

I taught a little group workshop to some of my students on this solo and spent four months on just the first four choruses

[jamiehenderson1993]

You are standing at the edge of an ocean that you want to cross and asking questions about shipbuilding, swimming, and fluid dynamics. What you really need is to learn to swim and to find plans for a simple boat or raft that you can build with the tools and materials that you already have at hand. Those plans are the recorded solos of the greats who have gone before you.

What to do next is to learn a few bars of a solo that is not beyond your current capabilities. The "not beyond your current capabilities" part is important. Dont make transcribing Oscar Peterson or Art Tatum your first project. Pick something easy - you want to learn to APPLY some of what you know already, rather than to get lost in a rathole of technical practice that takes years to bear fruit. Try to set a goal of getting some sort of concrete result in a month. At that point, you can decide whether to keep working on that particular project or to declare that you've learned something and choose another goal to pursue.

Doesn't matter whether you write it down, just memorize it, or even get it perfect. Just trying to do this will improve your conception of each style, teach you some vocabulary/licks that you can reuse, likely present a techical challenge that you'll need to solve in order to play the piece, and improve your ear-mind-fingers connection.

Do this for one song in each of your three categories: blues, jazz blues and standards, which are three different vocabularies and in some cases three different mechanical techniques. For example, Freddie King plays blues differently than Jimmy Bruno plays jazz blues differently than Joe Pass plays standards. A realistic goal would be to choose one example of one of these styles to learn as an initial project.

HTH

SJ

Thank you so much for this comment - this, I think, is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks so much. As a starter for 10, alongside the Grant Green tune, are there any others you'd suggest as great start points for Blues, Jazz-Blues and Standards? I have ones I like, but I'm curious if you have 'good' ones for beginners to this that contain lots of teachable concepts.

[pamosmusic]

Thank you so much for this comment - this, I think, is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks so much. As a starter for 10, alongside the Grant Green tune, are there any others you'd suggest as great start points for Blues, Jazz-Blues and Standards? I have ones I like, but I'm curious if you have 'good' ones for beginners to this that contain lots of teachable concepts.

The solo in No. 1 Green Street is almost six minutes long, so it’ll do you for a while

[starjasmine]

Thank you so much for this comment - this, I think, is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks so much. As a starter for 10, alongside the Grant Green tune, are there any others you'd suggest as great start points for Blues, Jazz-Blues and Standards? I have ones I like, but I'm curious if you have 'good' ones for beginners to this that contain lots of teachable concepts.

Here's part of my answer to that question in another thread a few years back:

Some easy standards that won't have you thinking you should give up and sell your guitar are:

Maiden Voyage
Satin Doll
Girl From Ipanema
Little Sunflower
Take the A Train

Green Dolphin Street and Blue Bossa do throw in the occasional minor ii-V (e.g. Dm7b5 to G7b9) but they are otherwise pretty easy tunes. For now you can just solo over major ii-Vs (e.g D-7 to G7) in those places, using your ear to pick notes that sound good. Later, you can learn to play something that fits a bit better over these beautiful-but-more-challenging chords.

Autumn Leaves is a bit trickier than any of these but it's worth tackling once you get some of these easier standards under your fingers and in your ears.

The melody and Ebma chord changes of Misty as it appears in Real Book I lie easily under the fingers of a beginner, making it an excellent choice for a first solo chord melody.

Also, be sure to check out the Bruce Forman's list of 10 tunes a beginning jazz guitarist should learn thread:

On the "Guitar Wank" podcast, Bruce Forman and Scott Henderson discuss Bruce's list of 10 songs that a beginning jazz guitarist should learn. He says these teach you a lot about how the classic standards are put together, and everyone plays these, so they'll get you started for jam session, etc.

GuitarWank - episode 12 - April 4, 2016 ? GuitarWank

Here are the tunes, and the reasons he gives. No real surprises, but it's a cool list, and I enjoyed his explanations for what each tune teaches.

* Autumn Leaves--learn about the cycle
* Take the A Train--[didn't catch a reason, perhaps because it moves to II?]
* All The Things You Are--hard, but best example of how the cycle works, and a great form
* It Could Happen To You (or Ain't Misbehaving)--Chromatic ascending bass line
* There Will Never Be Another You--Backcycling to IV
* Honeysuckle Rose--ii-V-Is, and the classic bridge, highly quoted melody
* Satin Doll--everyone plays it, and a great study in ii-V-Is
* Green Dolphin--cool form, "triadic shift--C to Eb to D to Db)" also cool backcyling through relative minor
* Just Friends--starts on the IV, great melody, check out Parker with strings
* Stella by Starlight--hard, but everyone wants to play it, so you've got to know it.

[pamosmusic]

Satin Doll might make you give up and sell your guitar. The bridge of Ipanema will for sure

[jamiehenderson1993]

Satin Doll might make you give up and sell your guitar. The bridge of Ipanema will for sure

I'm interested - what is it about those tunes?

And how would your list compare Peter? Genuinely interested to hear the differences

[pamosmusic]

I'm interested - what is it about those tunes?

And how would your list compare Peter? Genuinely interested to hear the differences

Sort of kidding about Satin Doll, though the Abm7 to Db7 is a little dodgy if you’re not ready for it.

The bridge to Ipanema is a bear. Jumps from F to Gb, to F#m followed by some remote leaps around between the minor and dominant chords. It’s also a long bridge, relative to the A section.

My list …

Autumn Leaves
Blues in F — Bags Groove, Now’s the Time
Blues in Bb — Sonnymoon, Blues in the Closet, Green St
Blues in C — C Jam Blues
Rhythm Changes — Lester Leaps In, Rhythm-a-ning

Little Sunflower is a great one, Blue Bossa good for the same reason. Both have fairly easy to negotiate remote key moves.

Some others depending on what folks like.

[jamiehenderson1993]

That's a great list of starter tunes too!